Interviews
Abia more important to me than electoral victory – Ikpeazu
Okezie Ikpeazu, Governor of Abia State, appears to be cutting the image of an unusual Nigerian politician in the manner he seems to be taking the political losses that have come to him in the 2023 general elections, where he not only lost his bid to move to the Senate, but also the loss of grip at the government house Umuahia, power would be transitioning from the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), which held it since 24 years, to the Labour Party (LP).
Instead of the usual anger, agitation and bad blood that usually accompanies such a development in the Nigerian contest, he seems to be taking the political misfortunes with philosophical calmness and sees it more as the right of the people to decide where to invest their votes as opposed to the his own determination to continue leading them. In this interview, he states that his foray into politics, which he capped by becoming governor in 2015, is not for want of other things to do, stressing that there were many other engagements that would occupy his time outside politics. Excerpts:
How do you feel after the election?
I’m okay. I feel very well and I thank God that I’ve run this race to this point and expecting the next phase of my life.
Losing your Senatorial ambition and your party losing the governorship, was that a big disappointment?
The two are not the same. For me, I’m a man of very modest expectations and public office is a call to serve. If I offer myself to serve and the people say no or wait, it’s not a personal loss. It gives me the opportunity to open other doors and do other things. I had a manifesto, I had an agenda which I thought was going to bring about some paradigm shift in the way things were done especially having been here for a couple of years and seen what I felt were gaps that needed to be filled and I offered myself. I congratulate myself for the courage to offer myself.
I congratulate myself also for the courage to run that race and I also congratulate myself for the courage to be able to say, oh, well, maybe the people think otherwise or something happened because what comes to play in an election is not entirely about what the people want. There are artefacts in every experiment. So whatever thing it is, I feel sufficiently bought to put myself together and move on. I won my last elections at the biggest league in the state. So this one for me is not a do-or-die thing or question of life and death. Ultimately history and posterity will make things clearer.
Did you just allow the system to run because, in this part of the world, it’s difficult for a Governor to want something and not get it?
If I want to be frank with you. I’m one of the people that the BVAS deceived. I’m one of the people who believed the stories around BVAS. No two elections are the same and this particular season of the election was difficult. I give you an example, at some point, more than 102 polling units with more than 100,000 registered voters could not vote in one of the LGAs in our senatorial district. The margin of lead for the first three candidates was not up to 30,000. Ordinarily, when the margin of lead is not up to what’s outstanding the right thing should be done. Again, same election was declared inconclusive at some point by the same INEC returning officer who later came back to say she was now ready to declare the results as directed from “above.”
That is obviously neither here nor there. The Nigerian system creates victims and creates scenarios of varying victory, but I said to myself, that I needed to teach Nigerians that, though an incumbent, if you try an election and it doesn’t work, you can move on. Especially if you really think that it is a call to serve. As governor, even with the very very tight schedules of a Governor, I was able to write a book in Biochemistry. So I’m certainly not a man of combat. I can get busy doing other things and I have callings in other spheres of human endeavour. I think I have given my eight years, no vacation, and never slept anytime earlier than 2am. My family needs me too and I need to take a break, so, I have moved on.
You talked about being deceived by BVAS, in what way?
Yes, because of all the advertisements about the BVAS, the human element and interferences in the entire process is still above 90 per cent. We thought it was a Super Technology, but it’s nothing. They’ve taken it to a point where somebody sits back to say I feel like I should look at the BVAS but under a different circumstance, the same person will say I don’t feel like looking at the BVAS now or the results are still uploading. So, if you look at the scenarios you see opportunities for people to be mischievous. Unfortunately, also characters within INEC advised some of the ad-hoc staff not to bother about the BVAS. So, some of us believe that there was something like that. From our situation room, what we get and the tumbling results that eventually manifested on the result sheets do not tally. It’s a monumental fraud.
With all these, one wonders why you advised that aggrieved people should not bother the governor-elect with litigations?
Yes, that is because this same governor-elect took me through hell when he lost in 2015. He’s been in this race for eight years and for me, I feel he must have an agenda. He must be desperate to begin to work for Abia and I’m still serious with my advice to candidates to let him be. Whatever be the case. The money that will be thrown into the tribunal belongs to Ndi-Abia. The energy and time would have been deployed to other things and the governor-elect would have sufficiently been distracted.
I know that some people take others to court just to distract them so that at the end of the day, they’ll be sufficiently weak and become vulnerable as they attack them the next time, but I do not think that is necessary. However, unfortunately, nobody wants to heed my advice. Even the labour party is taking some PDP candidates to court. So, nobody wants to listen. It’s only in this country that you want to expect what you can’t offer. Somebody says to you, I’m not going to take you to court, you tell the person thank you and then you go home and brief your lawyers to take the same person to court. I can’t understand where people are coming from. Its crazy.
But I still think that in Nigeria, we must learn to walk away and say I’ll need to fight another day. And sincerely speaking, I have sufficient courage to commend even my most vociferous opponent if he is doing well. Nothing is big enough to make me tell a lie. If you are doing well or if you do better than me, I will congratulate you and say you have done better than me. I was arguing with, my friend and I asked him between better and best, which one is more superlative? And he told me grammatically that it’s best, but I said what if something is better than your best?
So, I think better is more. So there’s always room for improvement. If I look back retrospectively, I will take pride in the things that I’ve done properly, but I thank God who has given me the courage to also own up to those things that I didn’t do properly. He also gave me the humility to pray that somebody comes to correct it for the general good of the people of Abia State. Nobody is an angel and nobody was made in heaven. We’re all from here.
After the presidential election, didn’t you feel that the Obi wave will make LP do well here?
The Peter Obi factor was a huge factor. People became very sentimental and emotional and a lot of things contributed to the cultic image that Peter Obi has in this part. One of them is that there’s hardly anything you can preach in favour of the established political parties that will excite Nigerians. Whatever you’re doing, if you touch on security, everyday life like food and access to money for my people here, you’ve touched on their jugular. So, people became extremely sensitive, frustrated, and angry and they voted and reacted out of frustration. But we know that very soon, the scales will fall from their eyes because there can only be one Peter Obi.
In the days ahead, Nigerians will interrogate the Peter Obi personae on one hand and also look at all those who rode on his back to become something and put them side by side with the Peter Obi personae and the question will now come naturally, was this what we went in for? But I pray that some of the aspirations of Nigerians will be assuaged in the coming days because I don’t think we still have the energy for further experimentation because our elasticity has elapsed. That’s what it is.
But do you think people got tired of 24 years of PDP in Abia State?
You see, the growth curve is a dumbbell. It has a point where it begins to experience diminishing returns and input will no longer be commensurate with the output. So, it flattens out and now begins to nosedive. The established parties have come to that point. The truth of the matter is, who’s not from PDP in Abia? That’s what it is. I pray that what happened to Nigerians in 2015 will not be the case here because I don’t think the change we subscribed to in 2015 met our expectations. Most times we change and change into something that will make some people in the PDP become heroes.
Did the issue of the death of your first candidate and emergence of a new one a few weeks before the election have an impact?
It’s very difficult to access but what I can give you for free is that the demise of Prof. Ikonne wouldn’t have been to our advantage. There’s no way his death could have helped our fortune. So, if it didn’t anything, then it would have counted against us. So, we were swimming against some very negative tides. Most importantly, we were contending with vitriolic propaganda because some people are experts in creating bubbles in the air and castle in the air, they don’t exist. They do these things deliberately in Abia.
This is the safest state in South East. This is the third state in foreign direct investment in Nigeria. This state has brought down infant and maternal mortality by 71 per cent as reported by World Bank. This State is working. It’s at variance with the picture that people try to create. There are 31,000 workers and 29,000 of them have received their salaries up to date. But they create scenarios and make it look as if there’s a Utopian paradise existing somewhere. But I know that having sat here for eight years, public service is not a tea party. There are things embedded in the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria that must discipline you. So, the demise of Prof. Iknonne must have reflected negatively on the outcome.
Was there a sign of internal sabotage?
Yes, I think that was even 60 per cent of what happened and that’s why I’m a happy man. If everybody under a house choose to pull down the house and stay under the weather, and you see the rain threatening, you can be sure that it’ll fall on everybody’s roof. Because people can because of envy, jealousy, avarice, selfishness, greed and do something unbelievable. You wanted something, and you know that only one person can get it in a big family. You may have had a shot before, a second and third time and you’re asked to wait because each time you went previously, it was at the expense of somebody, but your reaction will be if not me let the house fall. So, that was massive to the extent that members of the house pulled down the house and all of us are going to be tenants. Is either you stay outside or you be a tenant. For you to be a tenant, you must be able to pay rent. Possibly you go and beg to squat on somebody’s balcony. The three options are available to us.
What’s your impression generally and what happened to the G-5?
Nothing happened to the G-5. For me, my reaction to what happened in the presidential election is this; in every situation and circumstance, I try to find success because I developed a philosophy last year of saying thank you God for all the doors you’ve opened and thank you also for the ones you’ve closed because I don’t know what lies behind the door. For us, in G-5 if you will recall, we’ve been consistent in saying that for all the governors in Nigeria in the course of the exercise of our duty and mandate to unite this country and build a country where everybody’s opinion matters, come together and say that it’s time for the South to provide the leadership at the level of presidency.
The argument was that if we had a smooth sail, we would have brought the conversation home to say, within the South, there are three zones and how do we get a candidate from the zone that can win an election in the 2023 circumstance which is different from the 1999 and the 2019 circumstances. So, somehow, we left that meeting in Lagos and Asaba and it wasn’t easy for the APC. They had an incumbent from the North who could have railroaded everything to suit his kinsmen, but the governors in APC from the North stood their ground and said that it has to be a Southerner.
Of course, for them, they had to look at a Southerner within the rank of their party that has earned their trust and confidence and the lot fell on Tinubu and people started shouting. We came back to our people that we must do South now and when it became apparent that our Chairman is from the North and we say, Mr Chairman, you’re from the North, since you said you’re jettisoning zoning, if our candidate comes from the North what will you do? He said he’ll resign. So, handling of the aftermath of that convention was untidy. The convention that all of us participated in, the convention that we threw in everything, everybody who participated must have contributed but eventually, we heard that some people are the “heroes of the convention” while others are villains. Know it very well that wherever there’s a hero, there must be a villain and that wasn’t good enough. We expected a retraction of that comment from the top-level leadership of our party.
Then, I wasn’t particularly involved in the selection of who becomes the Vice Presidential candidate, but something happened. So, an aircraft that should move with four engines was now making a 12-hour flight with two engines. It became a problem and a whole lot of time was given to see how we can keep every member of the G-5 within the party and create room for the conversation to continue because my father told me that however bad I feel, I should remain on the table, continue to hold the conversation. And that was what we did. We kept everybody at the table and we were talking. But people became arrogant. I can take the arrogance of people because I see them as people that lack understanding but a lot of people can’t take the arrogance of other people. So, we started having problems. So, for me, a Southerner has become president.
He may not have come from my party, and I may not have done anything for him since he ran through another party, but for the stability of this country, we have another chance. If a Tinubu-led presidency decides to invest time, emotion and energy towards the unification of this country, than energy for frivolities, around the economy and security then we can be hopeful. These things are very important, but the first thing should be how do we gain the trust of Nigerians again? So that Nigerians from all walks of life, tribes and ethnic groups can know that this President is “my President”. If a Nigerian is held in any country, he’ll say “my President will come for me” if a Nigerian is being maltreated in any part of the country, he can say “my President will intervene” if a journalist is manhandled, he’ll say my President will come if a policeman is bullying a student, the student can say if my President hears this. We need a people’s President who will be able to galvanise all the resources we have in this country because I’m sure we have enough to be able to build ten countries.
The economy is not such a big deal because we have people who can fix this economy. Security is not such a big deal because we have people and a gallant military that can rise to the occasion. But what we lack is if I die in the line of service what happens to my children? We need the people’s President. Today, the South can’t say they were not given the opportunity to superintendent the affairs of Nigeria. So, when the time for the North comes, I’ll also be part of those that’ll say it’s the turn of the North. I’ll never come to a point where I will want the strongest or the fittest to take everything. I’ll rather continue to canvas for the society that’ll hold the hands of the weakest. For me, there’s some upward movement in the right direction. How our incoming President manages that and deploys it to become a capital for development is a conversation for another day.
You talked about things that make you proud, what are those things you will be remembered with?
Let me say this and I’m going to be very predictive. There’s going to be a very massive attack to demolish my legacies and monuments in Abia. It’s going to be a lot of falsehood. There’s going to be a lot of petty vendetta and all those sorts of things, but I’ll be proud to say that, I’m handing over the safest and most stable state in the South East despite the fact that this election didn’t go my way, I’m proud to say that no life was lost and I’m proud to say that the government of the day was rather a victim. In some places, people from other political parties were unleashing mayhem on our supporters and dealing with them the way they love, but in all of these, like Jonathan would say, this election, victory or loss, is not worth the life of any Abian.
Going forward, people will know that it’s when you have a secured state that you can become the third best in foreign direct investment. It’s also when you’ve created a better life for your people that you can become number three best when it comes to the poverty index in this country. These are world Bank parameters. In this place as I speak, the governors’ forum is doing a very serious review of our tele-health initiative. Abia State is the only state in Nigeria that has connected over 400 primary health care centres to a team of doctors in our call room online in real-time. The level of service we render in our primary health care centres today is comparable to the level of service some people render in general hospitals if not specialist hospitals. Today, in Abia State we’ve started the gradual establishment of laboratories in primary health care centres where a diagnosis can be done. Abia State runs a geriatric outreach for old people. We’ve built a specialist pediatric hospital and by the special Grace of God, we’ll deliver one of the biggest hospitals in the South-East before the 29th of May with a CT Scan that can do 265 slides.
I think the best I’ve seen around us recently is 32 or 64 slides. There’s no other machine that’s better or that can do better in this environment. 71 per cent reduction in infant and maternal mortality is not easy. I was asked by some journalists about some months ago to tell them how I’ve been battered and kidnapped by some internet warriors and terrorists? When I tell them that the World Bank has published that we’ve reduced infant and maternal mortality by 71 per cent they wanted to know how did you do it? And I told them that the strategy is to bring everybody to loop in our primary health care centre and do whatever you can to stop people from running to quarks for delivery. So, how do you do that? We keyed into the Basic Health Care Provision Fund.
We offered free delivery which is costing more than N120,000 in some private clinics. We give you free delivery pack needed to take care of the child. In addition to that, we also give you a token of N500 to go home with. The one that made news was that Ikpeazu is giving women that got delivered N500. When people ask me, how have you felt with the economy and how’s business in your state? I say to them, well before the statistics of being number three in foreign direct investment came, I told them, in 2015 when I became the Governor that fast food joints were closing because people were not investing in Aba. But today when you come, investment is growing , industries abound here, the Enyimba Economic City is almost taking off and people are building lubricant plants everywhere. But in addition, you have new Cinema, Chicken Republic (Fast Food that was nowhere in Abia before) and all these things for leisure and nightlife.
The one that they picked is that I said that the achievement of my government is Chicken Republic. But I was very happy when the World Bank published that we were number three in foreign direct investment. If you look at the turnover of Kentucky Fried Chickens (KFC) there’s no company that does better except the oil companies and Dangote. They employ over 6500 people in a city. People don’t understand. I have added 700 brand new classrooms to our credit and four new model schools. We’ve migrated into digital learning. We have continuing teachers training institute that continually trains our teachers and interfaces them with the best from the rest of the world like Australia, India and Bangladesh. That’s why today, out of eight years we maintained first in four years in the West African Examination Council (WAEC) conducted West African Senior School Certificate Examination (WASSCE). And we’ve not gone below fourth.
We moved Abia State University from number 97th to number 26th in Nigeria and the number too best state university in Nigeria. These things are not easy feats. We reversed enrollment back into public schools from 150,000 pupils to about 650,000 and above pupils on the account of our free meal programme started before that of the federal government and we employed about 5300 women to handle it, collaborating with Federal Government, as food vendors. I don’t want to talk about four Bridges and the first flyover in Abia. I don’t want to talk about connecting the major markets in Aba with good roads for the first time in 30 years. There are so many things I can beat my chest and say I’ve achieved. We have two industries for shoes and the other one for garments. By the special grace of God, I’ll be the Governor that’ll hand over a brand new government house. I don’t also want to talk about the completion of the International Conference Centre, the ASUBEB building and the JAAC Building started by my predecessor. Or the Abia Investment House, New ABSIEC and ASOPADEC headquarters. We’ve done a lot and there’s one that is very dear to my heart.
People did everything to stop the intervention of the African Development Bank in supporting us to do 500 kilometres of rural roads. They wrote petitions against the project. But despite all these, I was able to get the project on course and I’ll do the ground breaking before I leave. Somebody else may take the credit, but put it on record that this government paid the counterpart funding, defended that project before the Senate, the ministry of finance, attracted it and we’re doing the groundbreaking. Before the end of this year, that project would have touched the lives of our people. So, as I leave on the 29th of May, I’ll leave a very proud man. There may be things I didn’t do well. I still have 3000 workers which I wasn’t able to attend to their needs as I would have loved to. I still owe pensioners and of course, I inherited most of it. Some doctors as well. I still have about three or four months of their money in their own account but I’m asking them that if they don’t resume from strike, I’ll not pay because, if they claim they are being owed 29 months, in all honesty, they’ve not worked for 15 months within this period. My Bible says that a worker deserves his pay but they’ve not worked.
Each time I bargain with them, I remember one particular occasion they caused me to go and borrow N400 million on a Thursday and I paid them that Thursday, the next Tuesday, they embarked on a strike. So, I urge them to search their conscience and I pray that they get a better deal in the years ahead. In my first three months as governor, I paid them 11 months’ salary arrears. Those who were earning N500,000 went home with N5.5 million. So, I wanted to prove to them that I was a humane forthcoming leader but my relationship with them did not go, regrettably, as I would have loved it to. But I take solace in the fact that 29,000 of the rest of my workers and all the ministries were paid. As I said, there are a few things which I can say I didn’t do well, but I’m in a place where I can say I’ve given my best.
General assessment from the 2023 election?
The difference between the 1999 election and the 2023 election is that in the 1999 election, you could see and track rigging. But in 2023, they put the rigging beyond what you can see. People are left more frustrated than they were in 1999. In 2023, you don’t need to carry ballot boxes. All you need is to have a pen and a few friends in INEC. In 1999, if somebody is rigging the election, you’ll see the person rigging the election and you can shout. The jurisprudence of election litigations will be very interesting this time around. Let’s see what happens. But here again, when facts and figures are hidden inside the computer leaving the right to retrieve such facts and figures in the hands of one man, so, you can imagine?
I don’t know how it will be. I blame Nigerians. We spent a whole lot of time glorifying what we didn’t completely understand. What I expected, especially from our young ones, is that a deeper interrogation of the shortcomings of BVAS would have been brought to the fore. I’m not a very strong person in terms of ICT, but those who know it would have just walked up to us to say, this thing cannot do what they’re saying it will do and we take it up from there. Nigerians going forward should henceforth interrogate some of the stories they sell to us.
Expectations were very high and people thought we had it covered end to end but you can now see that it’s not so. I don’t know how we can pick up from here. I encourage Nigerians to remain resolute. If we had interrogated properly and asked the right questions, we’ll not be here. That’s why particularly I advised those who can bear to bear and those who can’t bear should follow the law to ventilate it. I said so because if I could not ask questions and I trusted, it’s a risk I brought upon myself, otherwise, why should you trust them? If you took the risk, then bear the brunt.
Sule Lamido, for Secretary of the defunct Social Democratic Party (SDP), and former Governor of Jigawa State, is a member of the coalition of politicians intent on removing President Bola Tinubu from power in 2027.
In this interview, with Vanguard, he spoke on myriad of issues including the sealing of the Peoples Democratic Party Secretariat in Abuja and his apparent subversive activities to undermine the party as well as the attempt by the President to turn Nigeria into a one-party state, which he said would not augur well for either the President or the country, submitting that instead of playing God, he should thank God for climbing to the highest office in the land. Excerpts:
A lot has been happening in your party the PDP in recent days – the most notable being the sealing of the party’s National Secretariat a few hours before the much-awaited National Executive Council meeting was to be held. It’s an iconic building, and ironically, the action was carried out by a prominent member of your party. Was this something you would have envisaged?
Well, what can one say? This is just the drama of Nigerian politics. Here is someone who was honoured by the PDP, brought into relevance by the PDP, and now turns around to fight the very party that made him. Nyesom Wike is, quite frankly, a disaster. What he has done is un-African and un-Nigerian.
I don’t understand how someone, simply because of his ambition, can take things so personally and act so destructively. There used to be a party culture that prioritised collective good – something altruistic – but that seems lost now.
To seal the PDP secretariat – a party that produced you, nurtured you – no matter your grievances, no matter your bitterness, it’s like destroying your own home. He claims he financed the party. But is it wrong for a son to take care of his mother? Does it now mean the mother must submit to the son and take orders from him simply because he’s providing her clothing?
Wike is thinking in a very warped way. He lacks the values and traditions that define our political culture. I’m glad, however, that President Tinubu intervened. The office was reopened by his order. The very man Wike is trying to please by destroying his own political family is the one saying, “No, you can’t do that.” So, in a way, Tinubu has exposed him – showing that Wike is unreliable, without tradition, without pedigree. And now, Tinubu too may likely abandon him very soon.
Part of your book narrated your encounter with the late Arthur Nzeribe, a member of the defunct Social Democratic Party during your time as National Secretary. He was the promoter of the Association for Better Nigeria which worked at cross purposes with the party. The party found a way to tame him. Do you think that tradition – of putting party first – has been lost in the PDP?
You’re right. During our time, the party was supreme. It held full authority, and everyone respected it, whether in the North, South, East, or West. Anyone – no matter how influential – who crossed the party line would be sanctioned.
Today, people openly working against the PDP are still being tolerated. Someone like Wike, who claims to love the PDP but is undermining it, should be expelled by the NWC. Why hasn’t that happened?
Look at the Board of Trustees (BoT). People like Samuel Ortom, who declared support for Tinubu in 2023, are still members. That’s why I’ve said I will not attend any PDP meeting unless Wike is expelled and people like Ortom are removed from the BOT. I remain a PDP member, but I will not participate in party functions or answer calls to meetings while these individuals remain in leadership.
How can I sit with someone like Ortom in the BOT to discuss the future of PDP? Or someone like Anyanwu, who is rejected in his zone and is now being imposed by another zone? These are impostors.
Some have argued that the FCT Minister’s attitude towards the party is a direct consequence of how he was treated during the last Presidential primary. Would you say the PDP has regrets for refusing to pick Wike as Vice-presidential candidate?
The issue was never personal. The PDP is a very organic, well-structured, and organized party. It can win elections with whoever it fields, as long as the party makes that decision collectively. When you try to bend the will of an entire party to appease one individual, you lose sight of the broader input and value of the party system.
It’s not about who came or shouted the loudest; it’s about identifying someone who fits the consensus for leadership-someone with the right temperament and comportment. The office of the President and Vice President is too important to be determined by emotions. Wike, at that time, was not suitable. He was too temperamental, too uncouth, and lacked the cultural understanding and maturity required for that role.
Leading Nigeria requires an appreciation of its cultural diversity and an ability to carry the national spirit. Wike might be a potential candidate for the future, but in 2023, Okowa was the better choice. He’s more disciplined, mature, and gentlemanly. He represents the values required for the office-understanding, pedigree, and a calm demeanour. Leadership is about character, not just personality.
One thing that worked for the PDP at the beginning was the presence of individuals who put Nigeria first and made sacrifices for the greater good. What changed? When did the decline we are witnessing today begin?
The decline began when people who didn’t understand the PDP’s values joined the party. They lacked the cultural grounding in sacrifice, collectivity, and the bigger picture. Some joined the party and started financing it, then acted as if they owned it. Take Wike, for instance-before PDP, he was virtually unknown. Whatever wealth he has now is thanks to the PDP.
It’s like a child bragging that he feeds his father. Before that child was born, the father had been feeding him. That’s life. When children grow, they care for their parents. But when a child boasts about that care, it becomes problematic. Wike lacks the temperament and leadership traits we need.
Frankly, Wike should be expelled from the PDP. He has committed several anti-party offences-abusing everyone, threatening havoc in Bauchi, and fighting other party members. He’s destructive. Without the PDP, he wouldn’t be where he is today. That’s why I caution Tinubu-he must be careful. People are beginning to see the danger in keeping Wike around. He may eventually turn on Tinubu too.
I’m glad Tinubu has started realising this and called him to order-especially after he closed a PDP office. That was a clear abuse of power. PDP has built Nigeria-three Presidents, several governors, and ministers-without PDP, Nigeria’s political history is incomplete. PDP restored, reconciled, and stabilized the country. Tinubu needs to understand this.
Within the PDP, there seems to be a culture of people leaving the party at critical moments, only to return and pick up tickets to contest elections. What are your thoughts on this sort of behaviour?
That behaviour stems from fundamental breaches in the party-dating back to 2014. These breaches created indiscipline and encouraged people to exit and return at will. For the party to move forward, the NWC must expel Wike and others like Ortom and the former governor of Edo, who are now professing loyalty to the APC. These individuals are undermining the party.
I’ve stopped attending party meetings. I still consider myself a PDP member, but I won’t sit in the same room with these characters.
Some believe Nigeria is drifting toward a one-party state. Do you share this fear? Is it possible?
If the ruling party is delivering excellent governance, then the popularity that follows is earned, and there’s no problem. But what we see is not natural political evolution-it’s state interference. The government is using public institutions and resources to destroy opposition parties.
PDP, ironically, is Tinubu’s insurance cover. If he destroys it, he weakens his future. A robust PDP helps stabilise Nigeria. Destroying the opposition puts democracy at risk and endangers his administration.
The presidential candidate of the Labour Party, Peter Obi, who incidentally was once a member of the PDP, recently accused the government of the day of orchestrating the crisis in both the LP and the PDP. Do you agree with him?
You don’t need a prophet to see it. The government is forcing and blackmailing people using agencies like EFCC. People are being pushed into the APC through threats and intimidation. It’s an abuse of state power.
If APC wants to compete fairly with PDP, fine. But the President is for all Nigerians-he shouldn’t use his office to suppress opposition. That’s dangerous-for democracy and him.
There’s talk of a northern coalition of opposition parties ahead of 2027. Do you see wisdom in that?
Yes, but it should not be a northern coalition. It should be a Nigerian coalition. The suffering in Nigeria is not limited to the North; the South is equally affected. So the effort must be national. Even if the initiative begins in the North, the objective should be to save Nigeria as a whole.
The PDP Governors’ Forum as well as party organs used to be a powerful force. But now, personal ambition seems to have weakened it. How do you think the party can be restored?
It’s not a crime to have ambition. That’s natural. But you must understand the context. From 1999 to 2014, the Nigerian presidency under PDP provided shelter and authority for governors and party members. That structure – what I call the “canopy” – is now gone. The leadership that should be steering the party, from the presidency or vice presidency, has also disappeared.
Without that umbrella of unity, everyone is on his own, that’s why the party feels fractured now.
Politics now was a bit different in the first and second republics. The party had greater control of its members and was largely obeyed. What do you think happened?
If you look at the politics of the Second Republic it was built on personalities. It was built on the character and personality traits of the party leader. For example, Chief Obafemi Awolowo of the UPN right from his days in the Action Group was a force to be reckoned with. He was somebody with a very strong moral background, a man with a strong character. Therefore members of his party knew they were following a leader. The same was the case with Malam Aminu Kano of the PRP. His followers saw in him an embodiment of all they wished for in a leader. Those parties were built on the philosophies espoused by their leaders. The PDP was created in the aftermath of the June 12 crisis. It was a product of a consensus. People from the UPN, the SDP, NPN were all in the PDP. They were there in the beginning. They came together to save the country from a particular problem which was June 12. They built that trust among Nigerians.
How can this trust be rebuilt and the party returned to the right path?
Let us follow the party’s rules, culture and traditions. Let us follow our rules and punish those who deserve punishment, those who have been causing us problems Wike and members of his G-5 kick them out of the party to restore our party’s dignity. You cannot make progress by dealing with a person who is running with the deer and hunting with the hound. Somebody who is in the PDP, working with Tinubu not even the APC is incomprehensible.
There have been concerns about the weakening of our institutions especially our courts when it comes to political issues. Do you share this view?
I feel the courts are now up and doing. They are trying to restore their dignity and character, because they have now said, on issues of party management, by their own rules and traditions, we have no business with it, simple. It is very clear; that the court has no business with the internal affairs of political parties. So, that is why if tomorrow, the party sacks Anyanwu, he is sacked because he can’t contest that decision in court based on this judgment. Those who have been causing unnecessary trouble should face the Disciplinary Committee and be sacked. Before now, such people rushed to court to stop the process but now the court has said no, we have no business with you, run your party according to your constitution. If the party sacks Anyanwu, Wike and co they are sacked! All that is required is the courage to do so that’s all.
What do you make of the recent political summit by the ruling APC and the endorsements for a second term for President Bola Tinubu?
They are panicking. You see, they are very panicky, and that is why they are using public institutions to coerce people into joining them. Look at Abuja now. It is nauseating, it is not up to two years out of four years of tenure, and you have posters of Tinubu all over the place. In Nigeria we have more serious issues they are yet to tackle but they are flooding our streets with posters and billboards.
They are not concerned with governance and providing services for the people who elected them but with fanfare. If I were Tinubu, I’d ask them to remove all those posters. I will order Wike. The sycophancy is too much, that is why I say by the time everybody is conquered they will have no one left to govern.
You are now by all definitions a statesman. What advice can you give the President?
My advice to Tinubu is this; he should remember that against all odds, against Afenifere, against Ohanaeze, against ACF, against Buhari, against everybody, God made him President of Nigeria. Therefore, let him go back to God and tell him, “I am very grateful that you made me President, if you don’t put me back, I thank you for making me President of Nigeria.
But then he is going all over the place to say I can take over your functions with my Wayo, with my wuru wuru and come back, you don’t play God.
Lateef Fagbemi (SAN) Attorney General of the Federation and Minister of Justice (AGF-MoJ), on Wednesday, pushed back on the barrage of attacks on President Bola Tinubu for declaring a State of Emergency on Rivers State.
The President’s pronouncement, saw the suspension of all the elected members of both the executive and legislature, including Siminalayi Fubara, the governor and Martin Amaewhule, Speaker of the House of Assembly, leading the camp of lawmakers loyal to Nyesom Wike, Minister of the Federal Capital Territory (FCT), the two major parties in the bitter political conflict that began in October 2023.
Against the backdrop of arguments by the critics of the President, who insisted that he had no powers to order the suspension of the democratic institution and others who claimed he showed manifest bias by not also including Wike in the punishment, Fagbemi argued that those raising the issues were actually wrong in their positions.
He spoke to reporters in Abuja, shortly after Tinubu swore in Ibok-Ete Ibas, former Chief of Naval Staff, as the Sole Administrator to take charge of affairs in the state. Excerpts:
Fagbemi:
It’s no longer news that the president of the nation, President Bola Ahmed Tinubu GCFR, yesterday, took the bull by the horns to do what was required of a statesman, a patriot and a head of State and commander in chief of the armed forces.
The events in Rivers State started long ago, and he tried to intervene many times. Apart from that, well-meaning Nigerians, leaders of thought, and concerned citizens have also attempted to settle the matter without any result. The President came out boldly yesterday to say the situation cannot be allowed to continue, a situation in which the critical economic life of the nation, what is giving lifeline to the nation to be, you know, criminally touched without any response from those who would ordinarily be expected to do so, cannot continue.
But don’t forget, the whole thing started or crystallised with the judgment of the Supreme Court that was handed down on the 28th day of February 2025 in which the Supreme Court, that’s the highest court in the land, made a categorical pronouncement after making very profound findings of breaches of the Constitution by the parties involved, particularly the governor of Rivers state, concluded that he was acting like a despot and that, as the situation is in Rivers State, there is no Government. These are very serious and very weighty allegations that only an irresponsible Head of State or leader will fold his arms and ignore.
As I said, he made a very bold decision. We were all there when he addressed the public and chronicled all the facts from Genesis to Revelation.
So, I’m here. If there is any question to be asked on that, then I will be able to respond. But before then, don’t forget that the judgment of the Supreme Court had been widely reported and published in the papers. So, the President was not a party to it, so the question of trying to influence anything would not arise. And by virtue of certain provisions of the Constitution, everybody has a duty to ensure that the judgment of the court is obeyed, particularly coming from the highest court in the land; there is no other person to appeal to. There is no other body to appeal to. It’s not subject to any further test of validity. As things are, we all have a duty, collectively and individually to ensure that we give maximum respect and obedience to the judgment of the Supreme Court.
So, gentlemen, I’m available to answer any questions, clarify, or make observations. Thank you.
Did the situation in Rivers State warrant the declaration of a state of emergency? Because some people say the President’s decision was hasty?
Let me start on a note of how we got to where we are today. How did it all start? That is about the genesis. We all know how we got there since 2023. Towards the end of 2023, things have not been going well to the extent that the governor took the law into his hands and demolished and brought down the House of Assembly. Don’t forget the role of the House of Assembly. They are the lawmakers. They are to consider the budget. They are to, you know, pass the budget. They are also to be approached in matters of appointment of commissioners for ratification and all other things. They are to do oversight functions. So, since that happened, things have not been the same at all.
In a community of 32, you expect that at least 15 or 16 people will be there to do the job. The governor, as I said, and it is no longer news, harboured three or four of the members, constituted them to the House of Assembly and gave them preferential treatment, and moved them to the Government House to perform legislative functions. This situation got to the court. There were about 10, 15, 16 cases, and at the end of the day, the Supreme Court came out and made very profound findings of breaches of the Constitution, mainly against the governor.
You see, you rise or fall based on what you took to court and what court decision is on it. The court came to the decision that the governor had long anticipated, wrongly, that he might be impeached, and because of that, he knew that the House of Assembly was a critical structure, or organ, so he brought down the House of Assembly. 14 months after that is as at yesterday, there was no effort to rebuild the House of Assembly.
The government stands on the tripod, the executive, the legislature, and the judiciary, and you have made the functioning of government impossible. It is not enough for the executive, to say, we are spending money, even the money you want to spend must have been appropriated for by the House of Assembly. These are some of the findings that the Supreme Court made. And at the end of the day, the Supreme Court said, or came to a decision, that the governor’s behaviour was like a despot, and that as the situation was, there was no government in Rivers. If there was no government in Rivers, what would we be looking for?
I’m so sorry for bringing in this issue. In the Bible, they asked Jesus Christ, are You the Son of God? And he said, Yes. Then others chorused, what further evidence do we need from this man? So, the stage is set, but no action was taken immediately in the expectation or hope that good sense will prevail, the governor would create an enabling environment, and that the House of Assembly too would be reasonable enough to ensure that the people of Rivers got a return for their voting of members of the House of Assembly and the governor and other elected officials to enjoy dividends of democracy. We are in a democracy.
So then, there was what I will call telegraphing of the militants, I will say, by the governor. And I said so when he beckoned to them that, oh, he will let them know when it was time to act, to the militant. Let us say it was wrong. Did he come out to disown them? The answer is no. And a week after, they swung into action; you see or witness the vandalisation of oil pipelines.
Don’t also forget that before now, that is when this government came into office. Nigeria was producing about 900,000 barrels of oil a day. With the efforts and all the ingenuity that the President had, he ensured that the production rose to about 1.5 million barrels per day. That’s about 45 per cent increase; governors were smiling home at the end of the month with about 60 per cent increase in their take home to their various states. Then somebody rose or encouraged or became inactive when he was supposed to act. There was not a word dissuading the militants who issued this threat.
In today’s Nigeria, maybe with the efforts of Mr President, Agriculture will come in. But as at today, we still rely largely on oil. Anyone who touches these pipelines is not only the enemy of Rivers but he is also the enemy of Nigeria. All Nigerians in all 36 states, share in what comes in from the production of this oil. And I believe that the decision of Mr President is anchored on the decision of the Supreme Court.
The second one is the inability of those involved, both the House of Assembly and the governor, to create an enabling environment for the people of Rivers to enjoy the dividends of democracy. The third part of the series is about the security situation in that place. You know, if the President had waited maybe a day longer, only God knows what would have followed. And as a result, he came out to say, I am not only the Head of State, I’m Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces, and declared a state of emergency.
What would you say to those who said Mr President’s decision was hasty?
I will ask rather rhetorically, when do you think he should have acted? When everything has collapsed? No, the law envisages that you come in when there is imminent danger to the security of lives and property. People were killing themselves. It’s no longer news. It’s not a question of making up the story. We all read papers every day. Those who live there are living in fear. So, there is undoubtedly the need to come in. We have about two years into the administration in the state, if he didn’t come in now, when do you think he should come in? Is it when everything has been destroyed? I don’t think so.
The President has acted timeously. He had allowed all the people involved, the parties involved, to make amends. Before then, he assembled them, he tried to mediate. Some said he had no constitutional power after agreeing. And what they agreed to at the meeting were not implemented. So, to answer your question, I am certain that the President has acted timeously after giving them enough rope, and as the Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces, it was a tough decision for him to make.
It doesn’t present anybody with joy, to disrupt the flow of democracy or practice of it. But the Constitution itself envisages that there may be this type of situation, and that was why it is provided in section 305 of the Constitution that extraordinary situations might arise. This is one of such extraordinary situations.
People have expressed divergent views about the suspension of the governor, his deputy and members of the State House of Assembly. How legal would you say the suspension was?
You see, you decide each case on its own peculiar facts and circumstances. Who are the people involved? Who are the parties involved in this saga? They are the governor and members of the House of Assembly. So, who else should have been affected? I’ve heard this funny argument. I’m sorry for saying it. It’s funny because it doesn’t make any sense to me. Oh, that the President should have just gone there to secure the pipelines and then come back when some people are there encouraging vandals to come in. The action of the President, you know what happened, is the effect of a fundamental cause, and you cannot be treating the effect to cure the cause. What was the cause? The governor and members of the House of Assembly. So, you have to behave responsibly, and you must have the gut. If it happens again, I will encourage Mr President to do the same, maybe this time with even greater vigour and vitality. So, the question of separating, treating, or giving preferential treatment to anybody does not arise. If you give preferential treatment to anybody, you are giving preferential treatment to hooliganism. Just call a spade a spade.
This is where I believe that we should put up our patriotism cap. It shouldn’t be about individuals. It should not be about anybody. It should be about the entity called Nigeria, but in this case, it is Rivers State. So, it is Rivers State’s turn today, it can be anybody’s turn tomorrow. Let the signal be clearly sent for those who want to foment trouble, who want to make the practice of democracy and enjoyment of democracy a mirage, to think twice.
So, I will answer the question by saying, I return resounding no to the quest that the governor and deputy governor should have been spared, or the members of the House of Assembly, they were all in it.
Would you say, that the declaration of state of emergency in Rivers State was some compromise to save the governor and his deputy from impeachment?
It appears so. Don’t forget, I think yesterday (Tuesday), there was a notice of impeachment from the House of Assembly. If that impeachment had been allowed to take its full course, then the governor would have lost wholly and entirely. So, in a way, if you say it’s a compromise, I will agree that instead of allowing the impeachment process to continue, and which in the end, would have seen both the Governor and the deputy governor out of office and would have been out for the entirety of the four-year term with the remainder of what it we have. We are one year, I think about nine months now, leaving a balance of two years and three months. So, if normalcy returns, Fubara Sim may come in. But for now, it could be a compromise. I will agree.
What do you say to people who feel the President has a stake in this and he appears to be playing the playbook of the minister of the FCT, Wike, who appears to be the one that is winning in all this?
About the playbook of the Honourable Minister of Federal Capital Territory. You see, there are occasions especially when it comes to national issues, we have to come out plainly and sincerely. Where do you put the Minister of FCT in this case? Was he the one who asked for the demolition of the House of Assembly? Was he the one who said the governor should not present his budget to the House of Assembly? Was he the one who advised the governor not to go through the House of Assembly to ratify the commissioner-nominees? I don’t know. Because if you want to look at a case, you look at the facts presented. The Supreme Court made these critical findings. The FCT minister did not feature. Whatever the situation, assuming he featured, he would have featured, maybe on the side of the legislators. But you have is: let everybody go home for the first six months. So, I don’t see his hands here in what we have.
Look, I will encourage you to read that judgment of the Supreme Court. There were about 11 of 12 findings against the governor. What sentiments are we bringing on this matter? There isn’t any sentiment. If the National Assembly feels that the President has not done well, then you won’t have the two-thirds majority required to validate his action. Certainly, you know it is like a situation in which they veto, veto usually is on the side or with Mr President when a bill is presented. But the converse is the same here: It is the President who is initiating a move: I want to declare a state of emergency. He has to make that move. He made that clear in his speech and broadcast yesterday that I’ve made this decision and referred the matter to the National Assembly. It is for the National Assembly to now say we veto. That is to say, we don’t give you approval. And since the National Assembly is still in session, we expect that within 48 hours, something will come out for it.
So, whoever has any misgiving or concern, I will say, should channel it to the National Assembly to say, don’t give the required two-third approval. Otherwise, we should all, like I said, continue to put up our patriotism cap.
When Mr. President was in the opposition, particularly in 2014, he criticised the declaration of state of emergency by then President Goodluck Jonathan on three states for elections to take place due to security emergencies. What has changed? Did the President explain to you why his position has changed on declaring the state of emergency and suspending an elected governor, his deputy and the entire legislature of the state?
About what happened during President Jonathan’s period. Don’t forget, like I said, every matter depends on the peculiar facts and circumstances of the case. You can declare an emergency in a variety of ways. It is like a man who is suffering from a disease, they say oh it’s cancerous, they say, oh, I hope it has not spread to so-so area, then you now excise the portion affected. I think that was what happened during President Jonathan’s period. If it’s about the COVID period, it has its own, Boko Haram has its own. Boko Haram was located or confined to a particular area. The governor then said please come to our aid. But the governor who is at the centre of it here has not made any such request and it would have been grossly irresponsible for Mr President to fold his arms. So, the situation in the era of former President Goodluck Jonathan is different from what we have here. What we have here is everybody is involved. You can exercise your rights but don’t forget, there are always lines, you don’t cross them, if you cross them, then you also suffer the consequences.
With the state of emergency, who is going to reconcile them?
The people themselves, now that this situation has arisen, I believe, will call themselves to order. The President has intervened, 1,2,3, times without any result, and he alluded to this in his broadcast, that he had done his own. Well-meaning Nigerians have done their own to no avail, and that was why he had to come out and make the decision that he took yesterday. So, the people are left to allow good sense to prevail, so it is left to them to decide what they want, whether they want reconciliation or a continuation of the ugly situation.
Are we going to see FCT Minister playing a role in this reconciliation journey?
That will be an affair of the people of Rivers State, if they want. They can call him. If he likes, he can call them. But I assure you that with this situation, a platform has been created for them to come together in the interest of the good people of Rivers State who have voted to have dividends of democracy.
The NBA argued that the political crisis in Rivers State does not justify the emergency rule. What’s your reaction to that nation?
When you talk of a state of emergency, it is an extraordinary situation, demanding the suspension or putting in abeyance the normal situation that would have been. Normally you allow the legislature, the executive and the judiciary to continue to function. But like I said, section 305 envisaged that there might be a situation in which extraordinary matters or events will come up which will require suspending the normal rights or privileges of those who are involved, and that is why the justification for suspension of the people involved comes in.
I don’t see how you would have spared the governor and the legislature, they are both involved. Things are not working in Rivers. So, the justification is those who brought this to be, who caused this must be shown in clear terms that you don’t do it and get away with it. There must be consequences for our action. If section 305 were to be absent, then you can be talking of what justification do you have. But section 305 clearly spells out conditions in which the government, the President, will come out and say, I am suspending the normal operation of things. In times of war between Nigeria and another country, God forbid, that can come in. In other situations, yes, and you expect the governor to make supplication to Mr President, to say the situation I have in my state is such that we need you to come in, and that was why the President alluded to this in his broadcast. He said, the governor had failed to make the request, and I, as the President, have assessed the situation. I believe that a state of emergency should come in. A state of emergency presupposes the suspension of ordinary rights and privileges that you enjoy.
Will the seized funds be released to the Rivers State Sole Administrator?
An extraordinary situation has arisen in Rivers State. When the administrator comes, he may request for these funds, and to me, it will be in order for the release of that fund, because the extraordinary situation has brought them out of the normal situation of things.
Former Secretary General of Ohanaeze Ndigbo, Uche Okwukwu, speaks on the controversy over the identity of Ikwerre people in Rivers State and whether they belong to the Igbo tribe, among other related issues
What do you make of the disagreement between the President General of Ohanaeze Ndigbo, Chief Emmanuel Iwuanyanwu, and the President of Iwhnurohna Progressive Organisation, Dr Okachikwu Dibia?
As an Ikwerre man, I know we have the Ogbako Ikwerre; we have the Ikwerre Development Organisation, IDO. So, we don’t have anything called Iwhnurohna Progressive Organisation or IPO. So, the young man (Dibia) wanted to score a point by issuing a statement to challenge Chief Emmanuel Iwuanyanwu. I wish him good luck. That is what I will say in that regard.
But the man is the President of IwhnurohnaProgressive Organisation.
You are a journalist; have you heard about that name before? He needs to be asked some questions. First and foremost, his name is Dibia; that is what he said, and he wrote a book published in 2011, which I have. In that book, he said there was pressure on him to change his surname, but (he said) he did not change it because he allowed it to remain as an Igbo relic. But the truth is that he is an Igbo man; his DNA and his blood are Igbo. I have said time without number that the Ikwerre are Igbo, and they have at different fora from the Henry Willink’s Commission asserted that they are Igbo.
Ikwerre land is Igbo land. The man (Dibia) wanted to become popular by issuing a statement challenging Iwuanyanwu. For example, if Ango Abdullahi says something, and somebody wants to reply to him from Igbo land or Yoruba land, it should be a known name. So, who is this person, and what organisation does he represent?
But Dibia, who is an Ikwerre man, is saying that the Ikwerre are not Igbo. How will you respond to his claim?
I want to be recorded very well. The Ikwerre people are Igbo. If you say something that is not predicated on fact, either circumstantial or real, it is neither here nor there. The Portuguese got to Ikwerre land in 1400AD. Now, go and look at ‘People from Southern Nigeria’ by Amaury Talbot, Volume 1, Page 238. The Portuguese got to Isiokpo which is the headquarters of Ikwerre Local Government Area today; they got to Amaafa, which was the name Emuoha was answering. They recorded that people were here with these names.
Now, the Ikwerre people claimed that they left Benin under the reign of Oba Ewuare, and Oba Ewuare came to power in the Benin Kingdom in 1430 AD. That was after the Portuguese had visited Ikwerre land in 1400. Assuming without conceding that the Ikwerre people came from Benin, it then means that the Ikwerre people who came from Benin met people here (Ikwerre land). The people had been here when the Portuguese came.
Again, the Oba of Benin wrote a book titled, ‘Yes, my obedient servant’. The Oba of Benin I am referring to is Omo N’Oba Akpolokpolo, Oba Erediauwa. He (Oba Erediauwa) served as an Assistant District Commissioner in Ahoada Division (in today’s Rivers State) between 1954 and 1965. In his book titled, ‘Remain, sir, your obedient servant’, published in 2004, Omo N’Oba Erediauwa Akpolokpolo wrote it.
He (Erediuwa) said that the Ikwerre and the Etche were typical Igbo. Also, at the Henry Willink’s Commission in 1957, the Ikwerre presented their position through their leaders that from Port Harcourt to Onitsha was Igbo land, and when Henry Willink published his report in April 1958, he made it very clear that the Ikwerre were Igbo. He went to the point of stating in black and white that Port Harcourt was an Igbo town. It is there in black and white.
Now, let us go to human beings. Illustrious Ikwerre sons, more prominent than Dibia, had stated clearly that they were Igbo. Chibuike Amaechi, who is the former governor of Rivers State, former speaker of the House of Assembly, Rivers State, and first Nigerian Minister of Transportation, says he is an Igbo man.
The question I ask is, why are people not reporting it? Now, they are giving front-page headlines to Dibia. The first Ikwerre principal of any college; Saint John’s College, Diobu, first provost of the Rivers College of Education, now Ignatius Ajuru University, and first Ikwerre minister, Chief Emmanuel Aguma, said he was an Igbo man. The First Ikwerre poet, Okogbule Wonodi, who was a one-time registrar of the University of Port Harcourt, said he was an Igbo man.
The first Ikwerre senator, first Ikwerre to obtain a PhD, first Ikwerre commissioner, and first Ikwerre member of the Constituent Assembly, Constitution Conference, 1975 and 1977, Dr Obi Wali, said he was an Igbo man. The question I will ask Dibia is; ‘why do you say you are not an Igbo man?’
What do you think may have made him say the Ikwerre are not Igbo people?
Well, he knows what made him to say so. I don’t know. He (Dibia) wrote a book titled, ‘The Challenge of Ikwerre Development in Nigeria’, published in 2011. From Page 146 to 147 of that book, this is Dibia talking; he said, ‘Ikwerre names that are Igbo have remained unchanged because they were left as part of Ikwerre historical relics. They have no other meaning than that. For example, my name, Dibia, does not in any way assist in defining my personality despite the pressure to change it. I had decided to retain it to remember what Ikwerre people passed through in the past, representing the experiences needed to rebuild Ikwerre.’
Now, the question you will ask him is why he has not changed his name. Dibia means in Igbo land, a knowledgeable person and a healer. A professor can be called Dibia of History, Dibia of Law, Dibia of Journalism, or a healer. So, let him change his name, because he has no other names to answer. We are not Iwhnurohna people; we are Ikwerre people. He used the word ‘Iwhnurohna’. Let the people be bold to change all their organisations’ names from Ikwerre to Iwhnurohna, and they will lose their bearing and relevance.
Why did you say so?
Of course, if you change your surname today, you will lose your track. Why is it that the Afro-Americans are still insisting that they are Africans? Why are they not saying that they are Spanish? Why are they not saying that they are Germans or British? Why are they still insisting that they are Africans? Blacks and Afro-Americans have their root in Africa. This is because it is the identity that defines their mission and purpose and that they are blacks and Africans.
The Ikwerre are Igbo, and from time immemorial, the Ikwerre have remained in Ohanaeze. From 1939, the Ikwerre were members of the Igbo State Union which existed from 1939 to 1966 when the military proscribed it. Since the formation of the Ohanaeze Ndigbo in 1976 with Akanu Ibiam as President General and Jerome Udorji as first Secretary General, the Ikwerre were members of Ohanaeze.
I have served as Secretary General of Ohanaeze Ndigbo; many prominent sons and daughters of Ikwerre have served as Ohanaeze members. Chibudom Nwuche, former Deputy Speaker of the House of Representatives from Ekpeye is a member of the Board of Trustees of Ohanaeze as I am talking to you. His father, the late C.C Nwuche, once served as the chairman of Ohanaeze’s Elders’ Council. The late Senator Francis Ellah of Ogba, the most outstanding Ogba man to live on earth, was a senator; he was a district commissioner, he was the registrar of the Rivers State University at a time, he was Secretary to the Government, he was a minister, and remained Ohanaeze till he died.
So, I don’t know where the likes of Dibia are coming from. If he knows the people that sent him on an errand, he should tell them that the Igbo will not surrender Ikwerre to anyone or tribe; and I want to be recorded. Any attempt to remove Ikwerre land from the Igbo will be resisted. No nation in modern history will want his side to be shrunk. That is the whole crisis in Kremia and Ukraine. Russia said you cannot remove Russians from us.
Why do you think Ikwerre land is important to the Igbo?
No nation will want itself to be cut off from the sea. Ikwerre land is the tongue of the Igbo nation to the sea. The Ohanaeze President General (Emmanuel Iwuanyanwu) is coming to Rivers State in January 2025, because constitutionally, it is the turn of River State (to produce the next president general). So, the likes of Dibia are on a mission to undermine the Ikwerre in Ohanaeze. He should tell those who sent him that they have failed because some of us are still alive.
Some have said that the reason why some Ikwerre people are claiming that they are not part of Igbo and Igbo land is because of an alleged expansionist tendency of Igbo people. How will you react to this?
Who is expanding to where? Under the constitution, where are you expanding to? Nigeria is an indivisible and indissoluble country under Section 2 of the Constitution. Local governments have been created, and states have been created. Nobody from Ebonyi State will rule Enugu State; nobody from River State will rule Delta State. The clannish nature of Nigeria is so high that you cannot even be a councillor outside your village. Even in Yoruba land, you cannot come from Oyo State and be a councillor in Osun State.
So, I don’t know who is expanding to where. Is anybody controlling a local government except the chairman who is from there? Rivers State was created in 1967, almost 60 years ago. So, the Igbo came back to Rivers State after the war as non-Rivers indigenes and struggled for survival. Rivers people are in Lagos State as non-Lagosians struggling for survival. Anywhere you find yourself in Nigeria, you struggle for survival as a non-indigene. You battle; if you go to the university, you pay different school fees from the ones those from the state pay.
So, which expansionist tendency are these people talking about? If you go anywhere, you buy land with your money; nobody will dash you land. You are in Lagos today, if you have money to buy land, you buy from the natives. The Lagosians go to Ogun State and buy land. Even the Ijebu people buy land in Ijebu. Tell those saying this to tell us where we are expanding to. It is just a case of calling a dog a bad name to kill it. Tell the person that it is not true.
Ohanaeze Ndigbo will likely have a new president general next year and it is said that the position will go to Rivers State. How ready are your people to take this position?
That is the same question they ask when it comes to politics. What is the qualification to become a President of the country? Is it not a School Cert? (Umaru Musa) Yar’Adua was the first Nigerian President that went through the university. So, didn’t those who ruled before him do well? The Igbo-speaking people in Rivers State; the Ogba, the Ekpeye, the Ndoni, Ikwerre, Etche, Obigbo; don’t they have people? Is Amaechi not an Ikwerre man? He has said he is Igbo.
Are you saying a man, who has run presidential primary cannot be Ohanaeze’s president general? Are you saying that Chibudom Nwuche, who was deputy speaker of the House of Representatives, is not qualified to be Ohanaeze president general? Are you saying I am not qualified as a lawyer to become president general of Ohanaeze? I have also served as secretary general. Are the qualifications of the president general and secretary general of Ohanaeze different? It is like saying (Prof Yemi) Osinbajo cannot be President, even when he has been Vice President.
All those things are cheap blackmail. The Rivers people are very prepared. We are very prepared. Constitutionally, it is only people from Rivers State who can contest the position of the next president general of Ohanaeze. It is zoned to Rivers State, and after Rivers State, it will go to Abia State.
What is your advice to those who may unwittingly try to distort history over the current controversy on the identity of the Ikwerre people?
If something is not your name, you change your name. For example, my name is Uche Okwukwu. If I find out that it is not my name, I change it. Go to court, do an affidavit, and publish it in a newspaper. So, some Ikwerre who are saying Ikwerre are not Igbo should change their names.
Some have also said that language is not enough to determine where a person comes from.
Dibia is saying that he is retaining his name as an Igbo relic. Now, you are saying that a name is not important.
No, some people said, not me.
Let me quote what Oliver Wendell said in 1866 about language. ‘Every language is a temple in which the soul of those who speak it is enshrined. Language is by its very nature communal. It expresses never the exact thing, but a compromise that is common to me, you, and everybody.’ Now, language is very important. That is why the Yoruba of Kogi, Kwara, and Edo states are still saying they are Yoruba. This is because of language and name. If you say the Igbo should change their names. How? How can that kind of influence be there that the person does not retain anyone?
It is important I also give you this source; the famous Benin historian, Julius Egharevba, wrote a book titled, ‘Short History of Benin’. In that book, he said that the earliest migration of people out of Benin was in 1440, by which time the Portuguese had already visited Ikwerre and met the Ikwerre people. Remember that the Portuguese were here by 1400. So, I don’t know where they are getting their facts from. You must be armed with history to make a statement; you don’t just say things, and when they bring you out on national television, you can’t defend it.
Igbo women are said to always tie two wrappers and that is also one of the ways a person can determine who an Igbo woman is. How will you react to this claim?
These days, globalisation has made people open their noses, open ears in five places. Some almost go naked, which the government is fighting in all higher institutions. I know that Ikwerre women tie two wrappers. You must visit Ikwerre with your camera and take snapshots. We wrestle like Igbo and our women tie two wrappers.
Culled from The PUNCH
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