Interviews
Ikpeazu: I was still teaching as governor *Nigerians must give Tinubu a chance
While he was in government, Okezie Ikpeazu never failed to remind all that cared to listing that he not only had a second address but the office of the Governor of Abia State, was secondary. Today, he seems to have proved that by returning to that address – biochemistry.
He spoke in that perspective while also dwelling on other national issues, including his rating of President Bola Tinubu’s government so far, in this interview with reporters in Lagos. WhirlwindNews, was there. Excerpts:
You seem to have gone back to your first address, biochemistry, what has it been like?
It has been beautiful. I do not have a problem going back to biochemistry because I’ve always been part of the biochemistry family. I thank God that in my eight years as a Governor, I always kept it low and simple with my people in biochemistry so that this transition would not be a problem. I think it’s beautiful. We’re looking at new challenges from the perspective of science and how to further our acquisition of knowledge.
You were recently given an award, what have you done since you left office or was it what you did as a Governor?
Well, it’s a combination of both. When I was a Governor I kept a very close tie with the biochemistry family. I was teaching biochemistry at the Abia State University, Uturu, although pro bono. I was heading two research groups, one at Michael Okpara University and the other at ABSU. We were publishing, attending conferences, teaching and researching. Many people may not know that I set up a biochemistry laboratory in the Ishmael Ikpeazu Memorial Library. Part of that library is focused on evidence-based leadership.
So, it’s a leadership institute and also a biochemistry laboratory for the validation of Folk Medicine because we have some herbs that possess potent hypoglycemic principles. We’re thinking we can improve on some of these things and see how we can use them to solve our everyday problems – problems of diabetes, problems of high cholesterol and so many other everyday problems. We need to validate those things in the laboratory to ensure that they don’t contain principles that can undermine our health. I’ve also been mentoring young biochemists to see how they can sustain their interest in the subject. While in office and out of office, I’ve been active.
Do you have any regrets six months after your leadership?
No, I don’t regret anything. I’ve had time to reflect and do this review dispassionately. Our circumstances may not be the same, but if you repeat the circumstances, I will take the same decision again. I’m someone driven by logic. Before I make a decision, I check the reasons and basis, yes some of those decisions may not be good in the eyes of some people but it is natural. Can I be found wanting for not making a decision? The answer is no. Can I make a wrong decision? The answer is yes. But you will never find me not taking a decision. One must make a decision and I don’t regret it.
Nigerians appear to be regretting the exit of Buhari at the Federal level?
I think we need to be fair to the incumbent President. It takes time to prepare a good soup. One thing we must give to him is his ability to make difficult decisions. We’ve been a country managing things that shouldn’t be managed. There comes a time when we need to face reality and make a decision to put a stop to the bleeding. If you want to treat a wound you must arrest the bleeding. I think we’re in the process of arresting the bleeding before we can treat the wound. Some of the voices, especially the loud ones are voices of those who must have been benefiting from the continuous bleeding of our country. What do we need to do going forward? I think we need to be a little more patient, give time and be careful in setting agenda and canvassing our opinion.
Agenda setting is very critical and we must elevate our National agenda for unity and economic development above an individual or his political party. This is where I bring the media because the problem is that we ask the wrong questions. We appear not to know how to hold leaders responsible. At times we’re too sentimental. I give you an example, the turnaround maintenance for our refineries is sweet music today, but nobody bothers to ask, if Dangote refinery takes 400-500,000 barrels of crude monthly are we going to have enough crude to export and at the same time service the two local refineries when they come on stream?
Do we have enough production capacity for local refining and export to earn forex? Iran was sanctioned sometime ago, they took a decision and changed their policy. They said since you cannot allow us to sell crude to the international market, but we can still sell products from petroleum. We can sell paraffin, petrochemicals and other products coming from petroleum. They went into technology and started producing some important byproducts that come from petroleum and incidentally, the world did not ban those products. So, they ended up selling value-added products and made more money.
So, it behoves on us to know what we really want. So, I cannot join the chorus of turnaround maintenance without interrogating the question of do we even have the crude to service those refineries. If you spend all the billions to turn around the refineries do you have enough crude to service them? What should we be targeting for the international market? Shouldn’t it be value-added products from Crude rather than just petrol, kerosene and diesel? These are just elementary. Just refining crude isn’t enough and it is not new. That’s what people do in the Niger Delta. During the Civil War, I understand the Biafrans were refining crude in churches. So, what’s new in the technology? I’m just saying that we should put ourselves in order and know how to hold our leaders responsible.
If a leader comes and says I’m going to do turnaround maintenance in our refineries, should that be enough? Shouldn’t we be talking about value-added products and other things in 2023? So, I cannot join the chorus to say that nothing is being done. No, I cannot do that.
I’d rather say we need to give time and look at what’s being done and where we’re headed. This is because, when we know our destination, we can now interrogate the pathway and ask if this pathway will lead us to where we’re going. From where we are now looking at the distance, if my destination is Maiduguri and what’s available to take me there is a bicycle and you said I must be in Maiduguri in three hours then it’s not possible. So, our destination, where we want to be as a country, should be the parameters to determine whether somebody is doing well or not.
Therefore, our question and interrogation for our leaders should revolve around – one, how do we improve production capacity to meet OPEC quota? Two – to follow the IRAN option which is value addition of raw crude to maximise financial inflow. I think that our quest for petrochemical industries should overshadow mere turn around.
But as it stands now, does it look like we have a direction?
Certainly, we do, but I’m saying that foundational or fundamental issues should focus on arresting bleeding first. If you can do that, then other things will follow. Perhaps I’ll desire that we should focus more on alternative sources of income for our country. We’re huge on solid minerals and I think we should do more in the direction of solid minerals. This crude Oil thing alone isn’t solving everything.
But I think the focus is the effect it has on the people from cooking gas to petrol, so to ordinary Nigerians the policies are not favourable?
Yes for now, but what will be the mid-term and long-term effects? This should also be important. But should we say that spending the money we don’t have all those times to enjoy the availability of fuel and all that was the best? I give you an example, Nigerians should be steered towards responding appropriately to the nuances and impulses of the economy. Today, electricity has been epileptic. We can no longer buy diesel. What options do we have? Solar, the natural reaction will be to be moving towards Solar.
If I have the money today and I want to buy a car, I’ll buy an electric vehicle. That’s my natural response to unavailable fuel. If I have three vehicles and I usually put all of them on the road, the natural reaction will be to put one. I know of a highway in Texas USA where you get a tax refund or you wouldn’t pay the toll if you’re carrying about three persons in that vehicle. All members of the family, heading in one direction. Because you people have elected to use one vehicle, they wouldn’t charge the toll they’re supposed to charge if you didn’t apply that system. So, this is a problem everywhere, but people respond differently.
I was telling some people some time ago that here in Nigeria, we complain about electricity which is true because it drives everything. But then, how many of us need electricity to support manufacturing and production? The majority just need electricity to watch movies. When you get to some people’s rooms today, the heater (air-conditioner) there is switched on while they’re at work. This is just me saying we should adjust to some of those things. This is not me saying that all is perfect, but we need to allow our economic policies to grow up a human face.
But fundamentally speaking, I believe that if you’re on the wrong path towards a prescribed destination and you identify that that’s the wrong path, the earlier you stop and resume your journey towards the right direction, the better for you otherwise the hours you waste on that wrong direction will not take you there. We must begin to face the music that the years we wasted on the sojourn to the wrong path. We need to face it and do the needful. The time has come for us to make a decision. There are certain things the government needs to do and the people also need to do something. Citizens should also respond appropriately to the nuances and impulses.
What’s the government supposed to do?
In terms of energy, the government needs to focus on mining as against subsidising products and also make alternative sources of energy available for our people, Solar. I remember I brought a Power Pack that I distributed to some areas then. This Power Pack can light five bulbs and has different pots for the charging of phones. It’s as small as the pack of a shoe. The local market woman can move with it to where she sells and can use it to lighten up five bulbs in five different rooms when it’s dark.
Then, there’s a solar panel that you put out in the day to charge for the use at night. This is where the government should come in. Help get Solar panels, inverters, and lithium batteries. I understand lithium is in Nigeria, this is where we should think of subsidising mining, making it a product of national interest for lithium and attracting companies that will come in here to produce lithium batteries to set up solar panels for rural areas and upgrade power generally. These are some of the areas we should be focusing on.
How do you feel that so many big companies are leaving Nigeria, aren’t you worried?
Yes, you see, the fight and struggle for foreign direct investment is a process. It should be done using a multi-pronged approach. You don’t talk about foreign direct investment without properly marketing your country. If the President is going about marketing Nigeria, that’s very good, but should not be at the expense of creating the enabling environment for such enterprise to thrive because we cannot attract foreign investment by sentiments.
No foreign investor goes to a place because it was spoken about. We need to go beyond that. I said this in Washington DC on one of my visits to speak about foreign investment that we need to look inwards. I told Nigerians there that we need them to come home and invest. This is because if a Nigerian in the diaspora has refused to invest in our country, what’s the biggest incentive the foreigner will see to come and invest here?
We need our people of this country wherever they are to come home and invest. We should create an enabling environment for local businesses to thrive. We must do something about the banks making credit available. We must be intentional about protecting local investors and manufacturers. We must help them.
Look at the areas of entertainment and Techs that are thriving today, they’re just a result of the ingenuity and talents of Nigerians. When it comes to the provision of software for the growth of these businesses, we seem to be lacking. So, first of all, we must look inwards.
As for investors leaving, that’s natural. The investment climate is in flux. People will come and others will go and it all depends on what it is. If somebody comes to do a business that requires crude oil and suddenly, crude is no longer available, he’ll go to where he will get crude. If somebody does business and he cannot repatriate his money, he’ll go. So, these are some of the things we need to put in place.
We need to work on security and even middle cadre training for labour because part of what Nigeria markets to the world is cheap labour. China was doing that before, but now Chinese labour is no longer cheap. They’re looking for alternative manufacturing platforms. We must be able to build the training and capacities of our artisans to the level that one can comfortably come to Nigeria and say that we have some good technicians for different fields from auto to many things that can compete favourably with what’s out there elsewhere.
Not until that’s done, we cannot get to certain levels. So, working on your local manufacturers and providing incentives that’ll drive ease of doing business is key. Again, you need to work hard to bring people into Nigeria that’s why I said the president has to travel as he’s doing. It’s okay because he has to be interrogated by some of those people for him to clear the air about some things that concern foreign investment and only can give that assurance while interacting with people, but we must make sure that some of the things we’re saying are already on the ground.
Nigerians need to show a little more Faith in our country. I travelled to Turkey with my friend and he said to me, Nigerians complain too much about their country and say all kinds of negative things about their country but we don’t talk about it. He said I do business in Nigeria but I’m from Istanbul. He said that there’s a place he’ll take me to in his place and I’ll discover that all the crimes in Lagos, Kano, Aba and Onitsha are child’s play.
This is not me trying to cover, hide or protect anything but we need to be seeing our country differently. Some of these people that swim across to the Atlantic to travel outside go there to do some jobs that if you ask them to do down here, they’ll not accept to do it. We’re not responding appropriately to the stimulus of our economy. We think that the Nigeria of today is the same as the Nigeria of 1970 where we can wake up and subsidise everything. That may never come back, but in the interim, we must learn to adjust. My advice to the Government is to let everybody know your destination and your pathways so that it can be followed.
Sule Lamido, for Secretary of the defunct Social Democratic Party (SDP), and former Governor of Jigawa State, is a member of the coalition of politicians intent on removing President Bola Tinubu from power in 2027.
In this interview, with Vanguard, he spoke on myriad of issues including the sealing of the Peoples Democratic Party Secretariat in Abuja and his apparent subversive activities to undermine the party as well as the attempt by the President to turn Nigeria into a one-party state, which he said would not augur well for either the President or the country, submitting that instead of playing God, he should thank God for climbing to the highest office in the land. Excerpts:
A lot has been happening in your party the PDP in recent days – the most notable being the sealing of the party’s National Secretariat a few hours before the much-awaited National Executive Council meeting was to be held. It’s an iconic building, and ironically, the action was carried out by a prominent member of your party. Was this something you would have envisaged?
Well, what can one say? This is just the drama of Nigerian politics. Here is someone who was honoured by the PDP, brought into relevance by the PDP, and now turns around to fight the very party that made him. Nyesom Wike is, quite frankly, a disaster. What he has done is un-African and un-Nigerian.
I don’t understand how someone, simply because of his ambition, can take things so personally and act so destructively. There used to be a party culture that prioritised collective good – something altruistic – but that seems lost now.
To seal the PDP secretariat – a party that produced you, nurtured you – no matter your grievances, no matter your bitterness, it’s like destroying your own home. He claims he financed the party. But is it wrong for a son to take care of his mother? Does it now mean the mother must submit to the son and take orders from him simply because he’s providing her clothing?
Wike is thinking in a very warped way. He lacks the values and traditions that define our political culture. I’m glad, however, that President Tinubu intervened. The office was reopened by his order. The very man Wike is trying to please by destroying his own political family is the one saying, “No, you can’t do that.” So, in a way, Tinubu has exposed him – showing that Wike is unreliable, without tradition, without pedigree. And now, Tinubu too may likely abandon him very soon.
Part of your book narrated your encounter with the late Arthur Nzeribe, a member of the defunct Social Democratic Party during your time as National Secretary. He was the promoter of the Association for Better Nigeria which worked at cross purposes with the party. The party found a way to tame him. Do you think that tradition – of putting party first – has been lost in the PDP?
You’re right. During our time, the party was supreme. It held full authority, and everyone respected it, whether in the North, South, East, or West. Anyone – no matter how influential – who crossed the party line would be sanctioned.
Today, people openly working against the PDP are still being tolerated. Someone like Wike, who claims to love the PDP but is undermining it, should be expelled by the NWC. Why hasn’t that happened?
Look at the Board of Trustees (BoT). People like Samuel Ortom, who declared support for Tinubu in 2023, are still members. That’s why I’ve said I will not attend any PDP meeting unless Wike is expelled and people like Ortom are removed from the BOT. I remain a PDP member, but I will not participate in party functions or answer calls to meetings while these individuals remain in leadership.
How can I sit with someone like Ortom in the BOT to discuss the future of PDP? Or someone like Anyanwu, who is rejected in his zone and is now being imposed by another zone? These are impostors.
Some have argued that the FCT Minister’s attitude towards the party is a direct consequence of how he was treated during the last Presidential primary. Would you say the PDP has regrets for refusing to pick Wike as Vice-presidential candidate?
The issue was never personal. The PDP is a very organic, well-structured, and organized party. It can win elections with whoever it fields, as long as the party makes that decision collectively. When you try to bend the will of an entire party to appease one individual, you lose sight of the broader input and value of the party system.
It’s not about who came or shouted the loudest; it’s about identifying someone who fits the consensus for leadership-someone with the right temperament and comportment. The office of the President and Vice President is too important to be determined by emotions. Wike, at that time, was not suitable. He was too temperamental, too uncouth, and lacked the cultural understanding and maturity required for that role.
Leading Nigeria requires an appreciation of its cultural diversity and an ability to carry the national spirit. Wike might be a potential candidate for the future, but in 2023, Okowa was the better choice. He’s more disciplined, mature, and gentlemanly. He represents the values required for the office-understanding, pedigree, and a calm demeanour. Leadership is about character, not just personality.
One thing that worked for the PDP at the beginning was the presence of individuals who put Nigeria first and made sacrifices for the greater good. What changed? When did the decline we are witnessing today begin?
The decline began when people who didn’t understand the PDP’s values joined the party. They lacked the cultural grounding in sacrifice, collectivity, and the bigger picture. Some joined the party and started financing it, then acted as if they owned it. Take Wike, for instance-before PDP, he was virtually unknown. Whatever wealth he has now is thanks to the PDP.
It’s like a child bragging that he feeds his father. Before that child was born, the father had been feeding him. That’s life. When children grow, they care for their parents. But when a child boasts about that care, it becomes problematic. Wike lacks the temperament and leadership traits we need.
Frankly, Wike should be expelled from the PDP. He has committed several anti-party offences-abusing everyone, threatening havoc in Bauchi, and fighting other party members. He’s destructive. Without the PDP, he wouldn’t be where he is today. That’s why I caution Tinubu-he must be careful. People are beginning to see the danger in keeping Wike around. He may eventually turn on Tinubu too.
I’m glad Tinubu has started realising this and called him to order-especially after he closed a PDP office. That was a clear abuse of power. PDP has built Nigeria-three Presidents, several governors, and ministers-without PDP, Nigeria’s political history is incomplete. PDP restored, reconciled, and stabilized the country. Tinubu needs to understand this.
Within the PDP, there seems to be a culture of people leaving the party at critical moments, only to return and pick up tickets to contest elections. What are your thoughts on this sort of behaviour?
That behaviour stems from fundamental breaches in the party-dating back to 2014. These breaches created indiscipline and encouraged people to exit and return at will. For the party to move forward, the NWC must expel Wike and others like Ortom and the former governor of Edo, who are now professing loyalty to the APC. These individuals are undermining the party.
I’ve stopped attending party meetings. I still consider myself a PDP member, but I won’t sit in the same room with these characters.
Some believe Nigeria is drifting toward a one-party state. Do you share this fear? Is it possible?
If the ruling party is delivering excellent governance, then the popularity that follows is earned, and there’s no problem. But what we see is not natural political evolution-it’s state interference. The government is using public institutions and resources to destroy opposition parties.
PDP, ironically, is Tinubu’s insurance cover. If he destroys it, he weakens his future. A robust PDP helps stabilise Nigeria. Destroying the opposition puts democracy at risk and endangers his administration.
The presidential candidate of the Labour Party, Peter Obi, who incidentally was once a member of the PDP, recently accused the government of the day of orchestrating the crisis in both the LP and the PDP. Do you agree with him?
You don’t need a prophet to see it. The government is forcing and blackmailing people using agencies like EFCC. People are being pushed into the APC through threats and intimidation. It’s an abuse of state power.
If APC wants to compete fairly with PDP, fine. But the President is for all Nigerians-he shouldn’t use his office to suppress opposition. That’s dangerous-for democracy and him.
There’s talk of a northern coalition of opposition parties ahead of 2027. Do you see wisdom in that?
Yes, but it should not be a northern coalition. It should be a Nigerian coalition. The suffering in Nigeria is not limited to the North; the South is equally affected. So the effort must be national. Even if the initiative begins in the North, the objective should be to save Nigeria as a whole.
The PDP Governors’ Forum as well as party organs used to be a powerful force. But now, personal ambition seems to have weakened it. How do you think the party can be restored?
It’s not a crime to have ambition. That’s natural. But you must understand the context. From 1999 to 2014, the Nigerian presidency under PDP provided shelter and authority for governors and party members. That structure – what I call the “canopy” – is now gone. The leadership that should be steering the party, from the presidency or vice presidency, has also disappeared.
Without that umbrella of unity, everyone is on his own, that’s why the party feels fractured now.
Politics now was a bit different in the first and second republics. The party had greater control of its members and was largely obeyed. What do you think happened?
If you look at the politics of the Second Republic it was built on personalities. It was built on the character and personality traits of the party leader. For example, Chief Obafemi Awolowo of the UPN right from his days in the Action Group was a force to be reckoned with. He was somebody with a very strong moral background, a man with a strong character. Therefore members of his party knew they were following a leader. The same was the case with Malam Aminu Kano of the PRP. His followers saw in him an embodiment of all they wished for in a leader. Those parties were built on the philosophies espoused by their leaders. The PDP was created in the aftermath of the June 12 crisis. It was a product of a consensus. People from the UPN, the SDP, NPN were all in the PDP. They were there in the beginning. They came together to save the country from a particular problem which was June 12. They built that trust among Nigerians.
How can this trust be rebuilt and the party returned to the right path?
Let us follow the party’s rules, culture and traditions. Let us follow our rules and punish those who deserve punishment, those who have been causing us problems Wike and members of his G-5 kick them out of the party to restore our party’s dignity. You cannot make progress by dealing with a person who is running with the deer and hunting with the hound. Somebody who is in the PDP, working with Tinubu not even the APC is incomprehensible.
There have been concerns about the weakening of our institutions especially our courts when it comes to political issues. Do you share this view?
I feel the courts are now up and doing. They are trying to restore their dignity and character, because they have now said, on issues of party management, by their own rules and traditions, we have no business with it, simple. It is very clear; that the court has no business with the internal affairs of political parties. So, that is why if tomorrow, the party sacks Anyanwu, he is sacked because he can’t contest that decision in court based on this judgment. Those who have been causing unnecessary trouble should face the Disciplinary Committee and be sacked. Before now, such people rushed to court to stop the process but now the court has said no, we have no business with you, run your party according to your constitution. If the party sacks Anyanwu, Wike and co they are sacked! All that is required is the courage to do so that’s all.
What do you make of the recent political summit by the ruling APC and the endorsements for a second term for President Bola Tinubu?
They are panicking. You see, they are very panicky, and that is why they are using public institutions to coerce people into joining them. Look at Abuja now. It is nauseating, it is not up to two years out of four years of tenure, and you have posters of Tinubu all over the place. In Nigeria we have more serious issues they are yet to tackle but they are flooding our streets with posters and billboards.
They are not concerned with governance and providing services for the people who elected them but with fanfare. If I were Tinubu, I’d ask them to remove all those posters. I will order Wike. The sycophancy is too much, that is why I say by the time everybody is conquered they will have no one left to govern.
You are now by all definitions a statesman. What advice can you give the President?
My advice to Tinubu is this; he should remember that against all odds, against Afenifere, against Ohanaeze, against ACF, against Buhari, against everybody, God made him President of Nigeria. Therefore, let him go back to God and tell him, “I am very grateful that you made me President, if you don’t put me back, I thank you for making me President of Nigeria.
But then he is going all over the place to say I can take over your functions with my Wayo, with my wuru wuru and come back, you don’t play God.
Lateef Fagbemi (SAN) Attorney General of the Federation and Minister of Justice (AGF-MoJ), on Wednesday, pushed back on the barrage of attacks on President Bola Tinubu for declaring a State of Emergency on Rivers State.
The President’s pronouncement, saw the suspension of all the elected members of both the executive and legislature, including Siminalayi Fubara, the governor and Martin Amaewhule, Speaker of the House of Assembly, leading the camp of lawmakers loyal to Nyesom Wike, Minister of the Federal Capital Territory (FCT), the two major parties in the bitter political conflict that began in October 2023.
Against the backdrop of arguments by the critics of the President, who insisted that he had no powers to order the suspension of the democratic institution and others who claimed he showed manifest bias by not also including Wike in the punishment, Fagbemi argued that those raising the issues were actually wrong in their positions.
He spoke to reporters in Abuja, shortly after Tinubu swore in Ibok-Ete Ibas, former Chief of Naval Staff, as the Sole Administrator to take charge of affairs in the state. Excerpts:
Fagbemi:
It’s no longer news that the president of the nation, President Bola Ahmed Tinubu GCFR, yesterday, took the bull by the horns to do what was required of a statesman, a patriot and a head of State and commander in chief of the armed forces.
The events in Rivers State started long ago, and he tried to intervene many times. Apart from that, well-meaning Nigerians, leaders of thought, and concerned citizens have also attempted to settle the matter without any result. The President came out boldly yesterday to say the situation cannot be allowed to continue, a situation in which the critical economic life of the nation, what is giving lifeline to the nation to be, you know, criminally touched without any response from those who would ordinarily be expected to do so, cannot continue.
But don’t forget, the whole thing started or crystallised with the judgment of the Supreme Court that was handed down on the 28th day of February 2025 in which the Supreme Court, that’s the highest court in the land, made a categorical pronouncement after making very profound findings of breaches of the Constitution by the parties involved, particularly the governor of Rivers state, concluded that he was acting like a despot and that, as the situation is in Rivers State, there is no Government. These are very serious and very weighty allegations that only an irresponsible Head of State or leader will fold his arms and ignore.
As I said, he made a very bold decision. We were all there when he addressed the public and chronicled all the facts from Genesis to Revelation.
So, I’m here. If there is any question to be asked on that, then I will be able to respond. But before then, don’t forget that the judgment of the Supreme Court had been widely reported and published in the papers. So, the President was not a party to it, so the question of trying to influence anything would not arise. And by virtue of certain provisions of the Constitution, everybody has a duty to ensure that the judgment of the court is obeyed, particularly coming from the highest court in the land; there is no other person to appeal to. There is no other body to appeal to. It’s not subject to any further test of validity. As things are, we all have a duty, collectively and individually to ensure that we give maximum respect and obedience to the judgment of the Supreme Court.
So, gentlemen, I’m available to answer any questions, clarify, or make observations. Thank you.
Did the situation in Rivers State warrant the declaration of a state of emergency? Because some people say the President’s decision was hasty?
Let me start on a note of how we got to where we are today. How did it all start? That is about the genesis. We all know how we got there since 2023. Towards the end of 2023, things have not been going well to the extent that the governor took the law into his hands and demolished and brought down the House of Assembly. Don’t forget the role of the House of Assembly. They are the lawmakers. They are to consider the budget. They are to, you know, pass the budget. They are also to be approached in matters of appointment of commissioners for ratification and all other things. They are to do oversight functions. So, since that happened, things have not been the same at all.
In a community of 32, you expect that at least 15 or 16 people will be there to do the job. The governor, as I said, and it is no longer news, harboured three or four of the members, constituted them to the House of Assembly and gave them preferential treatment, and moved them to the Government House to perform legislative functions. This situation got to the court. There were about 10, 15, 16 cases, and at the end of the day, the Supreme Court came out and made very profound findings of breaches of the Constitution, mainly against the governor.
You see, you rise or fall based on what you took to court and what court decision is on it. The court came to the decision that the governor had long anticipated, wrongly, that he might be impeached, and because of that, he knew that the House of Assembly was a critical structure, or organ, so he brought down the House of Assembly. 14 months after that is as at yesterday, there was no effort to rebuild the House of Assembly.
The government stands on the tripod, the executive, the legislature, and the judiciary, and you have made the functioning of government impossible. It is not enough for the executive, to say, we are spending money, even the money you want to spend must have been appropriated for by the House of Assembly. These are some of the findings that the Supreme Court made. And at the end of the day, the Supreme Court said, or came to a decision, that the governor’s behaviour was like a despot, and that as the situation was, there was no government in Rivers. If there was no government in Rivers, what would we be looking for?
I’m so sorry for bringing in this issue. In the Bible, they asked Jesus Christ, are You the Son of God? And he said, Yes. Then others chorused, what further evidence do we need from this man? So, the stage is set, but no action was taken immediately in the expectation or hope that good sense will prevail, the governor would create an enabling environment, and that the House of Assembly too would be reasonable enough to ensure that the people of Rivers got a return for their voting of members of the House of Assembly and the governor and other elected officials to enjoy dividends of democracy. We are in a democracy.
So then, there was what I will call telegraphing of the militants, I will say, by the governor. And I said so when he beckoned to them that, oh, he will let them know when it was time to act, to the militant. Let us say it was wrong. Did he come out to disown them? The answer is no. And a week after, they swung into action; you see or witness the vandalisation of oil pipelines.
Don’t also forget that before now, that is when this government came into office. Nigeria was producing about 900,000 barrels of oil a day. With the efforts and all the ingenuity that the President had, he ensured that the production rose to about 1.5 million barrels per day. That’s about 45 per cent increase; governors were smiling home at the end of the month with about 60 per cent increase in their take home to their various states. Then somebody rose or encouraged or became inactive when he was supposed to act. There was not a word dissuading the militants who issued this threat.
In today’s Nigeria, maybe with the efforts of Mr President, Agriculture will come in. But as at today, we still rely largely on oil. Anyone who touches these pipelines is not only the enemy of Rivers but he is also the enemy of Nigeria. All Nigerians in all 36 states, share in what comes in from the production of this oil. And I believe that the decision of Mr President is anchored on the decision of the Supreme Court.
The second one is the inability of those involved, both the House of Assembly and the governor, to create an enabling environment for the people of Rivers to enjoy the dividends of democracy. The third part of the series is about the security situation in that place. You know, if the President had waited maybe a day longer, only God knows what would have followed. And as a result, he came out to say, I am not only the Head of State, I’m Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces, and declared a state of emergency.
What would you say to those who said Mr President’s decision was hasty?
I will ask rather rhetorically, when do you think he should have acted? When everything has collapsed? No, the law envisages that you come in when there is imminent danger to the security of lives and property. People were killing themselves. It’s no longer news. It’s not a question of making up the story. We all read papers every day. Those who live there are living in fear. So, there is undoubtedly the need to come in. We have about two years into the administration in the state, if he didn’t come in now, when do you think he should come in? Is it when everything has been destroyed? I don’t think so.
The President has acted timeously. He had allowed all the people involved, the parties involved, to make amends. Before then, he assembled them, he tried to mediate. Some said he had no constitutional power after agreeing. And what they agreed to at the meeting were not implemented. So, to answer your question, I am certain that the President has acted timeously after giving them enough rope, and as the Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces, it was a tough decision for him to make.
It doesn’t present anybody with joy, to disrupt the flow of democracy or practice of it. But the Constitution itself envisages that there may be this type of situation, and that was why it is provided in section 305 of the Constitution that extraordinary situations might arise. This is one of such extraordinary situations.
People have expressed divergent views about the suspension of the governor, his deputy and members of the State House of Assembly. How legal would you say the suspension was?
You see, you decide each case on its own peculiar facts and circumstances. Who are the people involved? Who are the parties involved in this saga? They are the governor and members of the House of Assembly. So, who else should have been affected? I’ve heard this funny argument. I’m sorry for saying it. It’s funny because it doesn’t make any sense to me. Oh, that the President should have just gone there to secure the pipelines and then come back when some people are there encouraging vandals to come in. The action of the President, you know what happened, is the effect of a fundamental cause, and you cannot be treating the effect to cure the cause. What was the cause? The governor and members of the House of Assembly. So, you have to behave responsibly, and you must have the gut. If it happens again, I will encourage Mr President to do the same, maybe this time with even greater vigour and vitality. So, the question of separating, treating, or giving preferential treatment to anybody does not arise. If you give preferential treatment to anybody, you are giving preferential treatment to hooliganism. Just call a spade a spade.
This is where I believe that we should put up our patriotism cap. It shouldn’t be about individuals. It should not be about anybody. It should be about the entity called Nigeria, but in this case, it is Rivers State. So, it is Rivers State’s turn today, it can be anybody’s turn tomorrow. Let the signal be clearly sent for those who want to foment trouble, who want to make the practice of democracy and enjoyment of democracy a mirage, to think twice.
So, I will answer the question by saying, I return resounding no to the quest that the governor and deputy governor should have been spared, or the members of the House of Assembly, they were all in it.
Would you say, that the declaration of state of emergency in Rivers State was some compromise to save the governor and his deputy from impeachment?
It appears so. Don’t forget, I think yesterday (Tuesday), there was a notice of impeachment from the House of Assembly. If that impeachment had been allowed to take its full course, then the governor would have lost wholly and entirely. So, in a way, if you say it’s a compromise, I will agree that instead of allowing the impeachment process to continue, and which in the end, would have seen both the Governor and the deputy governor out of office and would have been out for the entirety of the four-year term with the remainder of what it we have. We are one year, I think about nine months now, leaving a balance of two years and three months. So, if normalcy returns, Fubara Sim may come in. But for now, it could be a compromise. I will agree.
What do you say to people who feel the President has a stake in this and he appears to be playing the playbook of the minister of the FCT, Wike, who appears to be the one that is winning in all this?
About the playbook of the Honourable Minister of Federal Capital Territory. You see, there are occasions especially when it comes to national issues, we have to come out plainly and sincerely. Where do you put the Minister of FCT in this case? Was he the one who asked for the demolition of the House of Assembly? Was he the one who said the governor should not present his budget to the House of Assembly? Was he the one who advised the governor not to go through the House of Assembly to ratify the commissioner-nominees? I don’t know. Because if you want to look at a case, you look at the facts presented. The Supreme Court made these critical findings. The FCT minister did not feature. Whatever the situation, assuming he featured, he would have featured, maybe on the side of the legislators. But you have is: let everybody go home for the first six months. So, I don’t see his hands here in what we have.
Look, I will encourage you to read that judgment of the Supreme Court. There were about 11 of 12 findings against the governor. What sentiments are we bringing on this matter? There isn’t any sentiment. If the National Assembly feels that the President has not done well, then you won’t have the two-thirds majority required to validate his action. Certainly, you know it is like a situation in which they veto, veto usually is on the side or with Mr President when a bill is presented. But the converse is the same here: It is the President who is initiating a move: I want to declare a state of emergency. He has to make that move. He made that clear in his speech and broadcast yesterday that I’ve made this decision and referred the matter to the National Assembly. It is for the National Assembly to now say we veto. That is to say, we don’t give you approval. And since the National Assembly is still in session, we expect that within 48 hours, something will come out for it.
So, whoever has any misgiving or concern, I will say, should channel it to the National Assembly to say, don’t give the required two-third approval. Otherwise, we should all, like I said, continue to put up our patriotism cap.
When Mr. President was in the opposition, particularly in 2014, he criticised the declaration of state of emergency by then President Goodluck Jonathan on three states for elections to take place due to security emergencies. What has changed? Did the President explain to you why his position has changed on declaring the state of emergency and suspending an elected governor, his deputy and the entire legislature of the state?
About what happened during President Jonathan’s period. Don’t forget, like I said, every matter depends on the peculiar facts and circumstances of the case. You can declare an emergency in a variety of ways. It is like a man who is suffering from a disease, they say oh it’s cancerous, they say, oh, I hope it has not spread to so-so area, then you now excise the portion affected. I think that was what happened during President Jonathan’s period. If it’s about the COVID period, it has its own, Boko Haram has its own. Boko Haram was located or confined to a particular area. The governor then said please come to our aid. But the governor who is at the centre of it here has not made any such request and it would have been grossly irresponsible for Mr President to fold his arms. So, the situation in the era of former President Goodluck Jonathan is different from what we have here. What we have here is everybody is involved. You can exercise your rights but don’t forget, there are always lines, you don’t cross them, if you cross them, then you also suffer the consequences.
With the state of emergency, who is going to reconcile them?
The people themselves, now that this situation has arisen, I believe, will call themselves to order. The President has intervened, 1,2,3, times without any result, and he alluded to this in his broadcast, that he had done his own. Well-meaning Nigerians have done their own to no avail, and that was why he had to come out and make the decision that he took yesterday. So, the people are left to allow good sense to prevail, so it is left to them to decide what they want, whether they want reconciliation or a continuation of the ugly situation.
Are we going to see FCT Minister playing a role in this reconciliation journey?
That will be an affair of the people of Rivers State, if they want. They can call him. If he likes, he can call them. But I assure you that with this situation, a platform has been created for them to come together in the interest of the good people of Rivers State who have voted to have dividends of democracy.
The NBA argued that the political crisis in Rivers State does not justify the emergency rule. What’s your reaction to that nation?
When you talk of a state of emergency, it is an extraordinary situation, demanding the suspension or putting in abeyance the normal situation that would have been. Normally you allow the legislature, the executive and the judiciary to continue to function. But like I said, section 305 envisaged that there might be a situation in which extraordinary matters or events will come up which will require suspending the normal rights or privileges of those who are involved, and that is why the justification for suspension of the people involved comes in.
I don’t see how you would have spared the governor and the legislature, they are both involved. Things are not working in Rivers. So, the justification is those who brought this to be, who caused this must be shown in clear terms that you don’t do it and get away with it. There must be consequences for our action. If section 305 were to be absent, then you can be talking of what justification do you have. But section 305 clearly spells out conditions in which the government, the President, will come out and say, I am suspending the normal operation of things. In times of war between Nigeria and another country, God forbid, that can come in. In other situations, yes, and you expect the governor to make supplication to Mr President, to say the situation I have in my state is such that we need you to come in, and that was why the President alluded to this in his broadcast. He said, the governor had failed to make the request, and I, as the President, have assessed the situation. I believe that a state of emergency should come in. A state of emergency presupposes the suspension of ordinary rights and privileges that you enjoy.
Will the seized funds be released to the Rivers State Sole Administrator?
An extraordinary situation has arisen in Rivers State. When the administrator comes, he may request for these funds, and to me, it will be in order for the release of that fund, because the extraordinary situation has brought them out of the normal situation of things.
Former Secretary General of Ohanaeze Ndigbo, Uche Okwukwu, speaks on the controversy over the identity of Ikwerre people in Rivers State and whether they belong to the Igbo tribe, among other related issues
What do you make of the disagreement between the President General of Ohanaeze Ndigbo, Chief Emmanuel Iwuanyanwu, and the President of Iwhnurohna Progressive Organisation, Dr Okachikwu Dibia?
As an Ikwerre man, I know we have the Ogbako Ikwerre; we have the Ikwerre Development Organisation, IDO. So, we don’t have anything called Iwhnurohna Progressive Organisation or IPO. So, the young man (Dibia) wanted to score a point by issuing a statement to challenge Chief Emmanuel Iwuanyanwu. I wish him good luck. That is what I will say in that regard.
But the man is the President of IwhnurohnaProgressive Organisation.
You are a journalist; have you heard about that name before? He needs to be asked some questions. First and foremost, his name is Dibia; that is what he said, and he wrote a book published in 2011, which I have. In that book, he said there was pressure on him to change his surname, but (he said) he did not change it because he allowed it to remain as an Igbo relic. But the truth is that he is an Igbo man; his DNA and his blood are Igbo. I have said time without number that the Ikwerre are Igbo, and they have at different fora from the Henry Willink’s Commission asserted that they are Igbo.
Ikwerre land is Igbo land. The man (Dibia) wanted to become popular by issuing a statement challenging Iwuanyanwu. For example, if Ango Abdullahi says something, and somebody wants to reply to him from Igbo land or Yoruba land, it should be a known name. So, who is this person, and what organisation does he represent?
But Dibia, who is an Ikwerre man, is saying that the Ikwerre are not Igbo. How will you respond to his claim?
I want to be recorded very well. The Ikwerre people are Igbo. If you say something that is not predicated on fact, either circumstantial or real, it is neither here nor there. The Portuguese got to Ikwerre land in 1400AD. Now, go and look at ‘People from Southern Nigeria’ by Amaury Talbot, Volume 1, Page 238. The Portuguese got to Isiokpo which is the headquarters of Ikwerre Local Government Area today; they got to Amaafa, which was the name Emuoha was answering. They recorded that people were here with these names.
Now, the Ikwerre people claimed that they left Benin under the reign of Oba Ewuare, and Oba Ewuare came to power in the Benin Kingdom in 1430 AD. That was after the Portuguese had visited Ikwerre land in 1400. Assuming without conceding that the Ikwerre people came from Benin, it then means that the Ikwerre people who came from Benin met people here (Ikwerre land). The people had been here when the Portuguese came.
Again, the Oba of Benin wrote a book titled, ‘Yes, my obedient servant’. The Oba of Benin I am referring to is Omo N’Oba Akpolokpolo, Oba Erediauwa. He (Oba Erediauwa) served as an Assistant District Commissioner in Ahoada Division (in today’s Rivers State) between 1954 and 1965. In his book titled, ‘Remain, sir, your obedient servant’, published in 2004, Omo N’Oba Erediauwa Akpolokpolo wrote it.
He (Erediuwa) said that the Ikwerre and the Etche were typical Igbo. Also, at the Henry Willink’s Commission in 1957, the Ikwerre presented their position through their leaders that from Port Harcourt to Onitsha was Igbo land, and when Henry Willink published his report in April 1958, he made it very clear that the Ikwerre were Igbo. He went to the point of stating in black and white that Port Harcourt was an Igbo town. It is there in black and white.
Now, let us go to human beings. Illustrious Ikwerre sons, more prominent than Dibia, had stated clearly that they were Igbo. Chibuike Amaechi, who is the former governor of Rivers State, former speaker of the House of Assembly, Rivers State, and first Nigerian Minister of Transportation, says he is an Igbo man.
The question I ask is, why are people not reporting it? Now, they are giving front-page headlines to Dibia. The first Ikwerre principal of any college; Saint John’s College, Diobu, first provost of the Rivers College of Education, now Ignatius Ajuru University, and first Ikwerre minister, Chief Emmanuel Aguma, said he was an Igbo man. The First Ikwerre poet, Okogbule Wonodi, who was a one-time registrar of the University of Port Harcourt, said he was an Igbo man.
The first Ikwerre senator, first Ikwerre to obtain a PhD, first Ikwerre commissioner, and first Ikwerre member of the Constituent Assembly, Constitution Conference, 1975 and 1977, Dr Obi Wali, said he was an Igbo man. The question I will ask Dibia is; ‘why do you say you are not an Igbo man?’
What do you think may have made him say the Ikwerre are not Igbo people?
Well, he knows what made him to say so. I don’t know. He (Dibia) wrote a book titled, ‘The Challenge of Ikwerre Development in Nigeria’, published in 2011. From Page 146 to 147 of that book, this is Dibia talking; he said, ‘Ikwerre names that are Igbo have remained unchanged because they were left as part of Ikwerre historical relics. They have no other meaning than that. For example, my name, Dibia, does not in any way assist in defining my personality despite the pressure to change it. I had decided to retain it to remember what Ikwerre people passed through in the past, representing the experiences needed to rebuild Ikwerre.’
Now, the question you will ask him is why he has not changed his name. Dibia means in Igbo land, a knowledgeable person and a healer. A professor can be called Dibia of History, Dibia of Law, Dibia of Journalism, or a healer. So, let him change his name, because he has no other names to answer. We are not Iwhnurohna people; we are Ikwerre people. He used the word ‘Iwhnurohna’. Let the people be bold to change all their organisations’ names from Ikwerre to Iwhnurohna, and they will lose their bearing and relevance.
Why did you say so?
Of course, if you change your surname today, you will lose your track. Why is it that the Afro-Americans are still insisting that they are Africans? Why are they not saying that they are Spanish? Why are they not saying that they are Germans or British? Why are they still insisting that they are Africans? Blacks and Afro-Americans have their root in Africa. This is because it is the identity that defines their mission and purpose and that they are blacks and Africans.
The Ikwerre are Igbo, and from time immemorial, the Ikwerre have remained in Ohanaeze. From 1939, the Ikwerre were members of the Igbo State Union which existed from 1939 to 1966 when the military proscribed it. Since the formation of the Ohanaeze Ndigbo in 1976 with Akanu Ibiam as President General and Jerome Udorji as first Secretary General, the Ikwerre were members of Ohanaeze.
I have served as Secretary General of Ohanaeze Ndigbo; many prominent sons and daughters of Ikwerre have served as Ohanaeze members. Chibudom Nwuche, former Deputy Speaker of the House of Representatives from Ekpeye is a member of the Board of Trustees of Ohanaeze as I am talking to you. His father, the late C.C Nwuche, once served as the chairman of Ohanaeze’s Elders’ Council. The late Senator Francis Ellah of Ogba, the most outstanding Ogba man to live on earth, was a senator; he was a district commissioner, he was the registrar of the Rivers State University at a time, he was Secretary to the Government, he was a minister, and remained Ohanaeze till he died.
So, I don’t know where the likes of Dibia are coming from. If he knows the people that sent him on an errand, he should tell them that the Igbo will not surrender Ikwerre to anyone or tribe; and I want to be recorded. Any attempt to remove Ikwerre land from the Igbo will be resisted. No nation in modern history will want his side to be shrunk. That is the whole crisis in Kremia and Ukraine. Russia said you cannot remove Russians from us.
Why do you think Ikwerre land is important to the Igbo?
No nation will want itself to be cut off from the sea. Ikwerre land is the tongue of the Igbo nation to the sea. The Ohanaeze President General (Emmanuel Iwuanyanwu) is coming to Rivers State in January 2025, because constitutionally, it is the turn of River State (to produce the next president general). So, the likes of Dibia are on a mission to undermine the Ikwerre in Ohanaeze. He should tell those who sent him that they have failed because some of us are still alive.
Some have said that the reason why some Ikwerre people are claiming that they are not part of Igbo and Igbo land is because of an alleged expansionist tendency of Igbo people. How will you react to this?
Who is expanding to where? Under the constitution, where are you expanding to? Nigeria is an indivisible and indissoluble country under Section 2 of the Constitution. Local governments have been created, and states have been created. Nobody from Ebonyi State will rule Enugu State; nobody from River State will rule Delta State. The clannish nature of Nigeria is so high that you cannot even be a councillor outside your village. Even in Yoruba land, you cannot come from Oyo State and be a councillor in Osun State.
So, I don’t know who is expanding to where. Is anybody controlling a local government except the chairman who is from there? Rivers State was created in 1967, almost 60 years ago. So, the Igbo came back to Rivers State after the war as non-Rivers indigenes and struggled for survival. Rivers people are in Lagos State as non-Lagosians struggling for survival. Anywhere you find yourself in Nigeria, you struggle for survival as a non-indigene. You battle; if you go to the university, you pay different school fees from the ones those from the state pay.
So, which expansionist tendency are these people talking about? If you go anywhere, you buy land with your money; nobody will dash you land. You are in Lagos today, if you have money to buy land, you buy from the natives. The Lagosians go to Ogun State and buy land. Even the Ijebu people buy land in Ijebu. Tell those saying this to tell us where we are expanding to. It is just a case of calling a dog a bad name to kill it. Tell the person that it is not true.
Ohanaeze Ndigbo will likely have a new president general next year and it is said that the position will go to Rivers State. How ready are your people to take this position?
That is the same question they ask when it comes to politics. What is the qualification to become a President of the country? Is it not a School Cert? (Umaru Musa) Yar’Adua was the first Nigerian President that went through the university. So, didn’t those who ruled before him do well? The Igbo-speaking people in Rivers State; the Ogba, the Ekpeye, the Ndoni, Ikwerre, Etche, Obigbo; don’t they have people? Is Amaechi not an Ikwerre man? He has said he is Igbo.
Are you saying a man, who has run presidential primary cannot be Ohanaeze’s president general? Are you saying that Chibudom Nwuche, who was deputy speaker of the House of Representatives, is not qualified to be Ohanaeze president general? Are you saying I am not qualified as a lawyer to become president general of Ohanaeze? I have also served as secretary general. Are the qualifications of the president general and secretary general of Ohanaeze different? It is like saying (Prof Yemi) Osinbajo cannot be President, even when he has been Vice President.
All those things are cheap blackmail. The Rivers people are very prepared. We are very prepared. Constitutionally, it is only people from Rivers State who can contest the position of the next president general of Ohanaeze. It is zoned to Rivers State, and after Rivers State, it will go to Abia State.
What is your advice to those who may unwittingly try to distort history over the current controversy on the identity of the Ikwerre people?
If something is not your name, you change your name. For example, my name is Uche Okwukwu. If I find out that it is not my name, I change it. Go to court, do an affidavit, and publish it in a newspaper. So, some Ikwerre who are saying Ikwerre are not Igbo should change their names.
Some have also said that language is not enough to determine where a person comes from.
Dibia is saying that he is retaining his name as an Igbo relic. Now, you are saying that a name is not important.
No, some people said, not me.
Let me quote what Oliver Wendell said in 1866 about language. ‘Every language is a temple in which the soul of those who speak it is enshrined. Language is by its very nature communal. It expresses never the exact thing, but a compromise that is common to me, you, and everybody.’ Now, language is very important. That is why the Yoruba of Kogi, Kwara, and Edo states are still saying they are Yoruba. This is because of language and name. If you say the Igbo should change their names. How? How can that kind of influence be there that the person does not retain anyone?
It is important I also give you this source; the famous Benin historian, Julius Egharevba, wrote a book titled, ‘Short History of Benin’. In that book, he said that the earliest migration of people out of Benin was in 1440, by which time the Portuguese had already visited Ikwerre and met the Ikwerre people. Remember that the Portuguese were here by 1400. So, I don’t know where they are getting their facts from. You must be armed with history to make a statement; you don’t just say things, and when they bring you out on national television, you can’t defend it.
Igbo women are said to always tie two wrappers and that is also one of the ways a person can determine who an Igbo woman is. How will you react to this claim?
These days, globalisation has made people open their noses, open ears in five places. Some almost go naked, which the government is fighting in all higher institutions. I know that Ikwerre women tie two wrappers. You must visit Ikwerre with your camera and take snapshots. We wrestle like Igbo and our women tie two wrappers.
Culled from The PUNCH
BREAKING: Nwosu, ADC candidate, rejects result of Anambra polls over vote-buying
The last hours are nigh! Here is another chance! Open letter to Ndi-Anambra
Senator Natasha’s Airport antics and the theatre of distraction
-
News4 weeks agoRenowned evangelist Uma Ukpai is dead
-
News2 weeks agoAbia, S’East: In defence of Benjamin Kalu
-
Features2 weeks agoBen-Chuks Nwosu, Ogbalike Nnewi: Another feather to the cap, as the doyen soldiers on
-
News3 weeks agoAkpabio on Gowon @ 91: You remain a beacon of unity, national healing
-
Uncategorized3 weeks agoValarian Okeke: A custodian of faith, a messenger of God, a gift to humanity
-
Entertainment3 weeks agoNed Nwoko alleges wife Regina Daniels battling with substance abuse
-
News5 days agoThe last hours are nigh! Here is another chance! Open letter to Ndi-Anambra
-
Featured3 weeks agoAkpabio, not a killer, I’ve known him for 50 years – A’Ibom elder